What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
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22-07-2012, 12:02 AM
What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
Have always thought the RCs, who are always bitching about secularism, actually contributed the most to what they condemn, by the small change of stupidly allowing their peeps to go to church on Saturday evening, instead of Sundays. It's taken for granted today, but was a large cultural shift. As a result, stores began to be open on Sundays, etc., as the time was freed for other things. What do ya think ? What were other major, but forgotten things we take for granted, which contributed to the ways we live, that we don't think about ? A song, a certain movie, a person, after which things were never the same, that we don't think about.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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22-07-2012, 01:37 AM (This post was last modified: 22-07-2012 02:11 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
Johann Fust's 1550 guilders. Small change. Big Grin

The solar eclipse of 1560. Thumbsup

√2. Evil_monster

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22-07-2012, 04:42 AM
RE: What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
(22-07-2012 12:02 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Have always thought the RCs, who are always bitching about secularism, actually contributed the most to what they condemn, by the small change of stupidly allowing their peeps to go to church on Saturday evening, instead of Sundays. It's taken for granted today, but was a large cultural shift. As a result, stores began to be open on Sundays, etc., as the time was freed for other things. What do ya think ?


I don't know where you got the idea that Roman Catholics are always bitching about secularism. I grew up Catholic, and complaining about how secular the world is was something I heard done rarely. On the other hand, the evangelical/fundamentalist churches grouse about secularism frequently, particularly in association with the "secular public school system," a primary reason why home schooling is so favored by these churches.

I actually think there's some merit to the reason I often heard stated about why mass on Saturday evening began--so that people could go to Mass, take communion and then go out to get drunk. Getting drunk was regarded as a serious sin way back when, so a person would have to go to confession before taking communion. That was easily done in big city churches where there was often an assistant priest in the confessional hearing confessions before Sunday Mass began. Smaller churches with only a single priest usually held confession on Saturday afternoon, so it was impossible to get plastered and then go to communion the next morning unless you were prepared to add another serious sin to your list. It was believed that if you took communion without having gone to confession when you knew you'd done something seriously wrong, that made going to communion a sin, too.

Social change resulting from the rebelliousness of the hippie movement had a lot more to do with the culture becoming more lenient and much less conventionally religious, I think. The personal independence fostered by the "Do your own thing" philosophy of the 60's led to a climate where it became easier to reject religion altogether. Also, the influx into the U.S. of people with religions other than Christianity had an effect, too, upon stores deciding to open on Sunday, I think. That didn't occur to any great extent until the latter 1970's and early 80's.
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22-07-2012, 05:13 AM (This post was last modified: 22-07-2012 07:03 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
Wasn't thinking that far back. But if so, then Mozart's Figaro, (he makes fun of aristocrats all through it, right in front of them, and Rosina forgives Almaviva at the end, without referencing religion). (The Enlightenment). Also in Don Giovanni, the father figure falls into hell, unredeemed. Not sure, that may be a first, for the principal character.

Beethoven .. Fidelio/9th Symphony, just cuz they are what they are, (same reason).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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22-07-2012, 05:19 AM
RE: What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
Well I can't think of nothing recent. Tongue

Religion was such a non-issue until that pesky god character showed up and made me a prophet. Sadcryface2

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22-07-2012, 05:24 AM
RE: What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
Hi there, Her Dotness and welcome to the forum.

Challenging young Bucky with your first post... dems some balls!

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22-07-2012, 05:33 AM
RE: What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
Ty for the howdy, DLJ.

"Message board rabblerouser" is my stock-in-trade. < sassy wink and grin >
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22-07-2012, 06:06 AM (This post was last modified: 22-07-2012 06:14 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
The only thing Benedict XVI talks about is secularism. I never heard the drunk theory, about Saturday nights. Seems rather far fetched. Is there a document, in the church, supporting that opinion ? Confessions were never done on Sundays. They were done on Saturdays. I NEVER ONCE heard of a parish that had confessions on Sundays. There were 4 priests in my mom's parish, and they all heard confessions on Saturday, and never on Sunday. If you got plastered on Saturday night, you still had to confess it the next week, before communion, so there goes that theory, as the next week, they had to confess on Saturday.

Social change that arose during the time of the Hippie movement was not caused by the hippie movement. The question is what caused the Hippie movement.

What religions "influxed" that caused Sunday shopping ?

If one week, it's a "mortal sin" to miss mass on Sunday, and the next it's not, they're all gonna go "WTF?". And then they bitch about "moral relativism", when they encouraged it. I have to look, but I think there is still a rule on the books, that the "anticipated" mass is supposed to be after sunset, and can be done ONLY if there is a reason for missing the Sunday service. Of course if they did that, their churches would be empty, so they wouldn't dare.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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22-07-2012, 06:07 AM
RE: What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
(22-07-2012 06:06 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The question is what caused the Hippie movement.

The CIA. Obviously. Evil_monster

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22-07-2012, 06:22 AM
RE: What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
(22-07-2012 06:07 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(22-07-2012 06:06 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The question is what caused the Hippie movement.

The CIA. Obviously. Evil_monster
Well, yes, in as much as they started the Viet-Nam war, and most of it's fallout.

http://www.whale.to/b/prouty_b2.html

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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