What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
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22-07-2012, 06:24 AM
RE: What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
(22-07-2012 06:22 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(22-07-2012 06:07 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  The CIA. Obviously. Evil_monster
Well, yes, in as much as they started the Viet-Nam war, and most of it's fallout.

http://www.whale.to/b/prouty_b2.html


And the whole investigation into LSD as mind control... cause as usual, shit got out of control. Big Grin

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22-07-2012, 06:42 AM
RE: What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
(22-07-2012 06:06 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The only thing Benedict XVI talks about is secularism.

That may be the case. I rarely pay any attention at all to what Benny the Rat has to say.

However, you mentioned the change to Saturday mass which was instituted long before Ratzinger became pope.

Quote:I never heard the drunk theory, about Saturday nights. Seems rather far fetched. Is there a document, in the church, supporting that opinion ?

OF COURSE NOT! Are you kidding me???? Do you think that a church that has spent decades covering up sexual abuse would admit openly that one reason why Saturday mass was implemented was to get more people who spend their Saturday nights partying into the pews sometime rather than not at all on Sunday morning? Quite a lot of hard-drinking German Catholics of my acquaintance jokingly claimed that they suspected this was why Saturday mass was instituted. Anyway, they took full advantage of the opportunity generally.

Hmmm...upon checking, turns out that I'm wrong that the hippie movement of the 1960's could have influenced this change since the Saturday mass was authorized by Vat2 in the first half of the 1960's. Thus, it would have pre-dated the hippie movement having had much influence upon religious attitudes.

Guess I was thinking of the fact that there was no Saturday mass in my childhood parish until the early 1970's and assumed wrongly that that timing was universal.

Seems to have been a change that resulted from John 23rd's desire to make Catholicism more user-friendly.

As for there not being churches that had confession before Sunday morning mass, you apparently never attended a church where that was done; I did.
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22-07-2012, 06:55 AM
RE: What do you think were the major turning points towards "secular" culture ?
(22-07-2012 06:42 AM)Her Dotness Wrote:  
(22-07-2012 06:06 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The only thing Benedict XVI talks about is secularism.

That may be the case. I rarely pay any attention at all to what Benny the Rat has to say.

However, you mentioned the change to Saturday mass which was instituted long before Ratzinger became pope.

Quote:I never heard the drunk theory, about Saturday nights. Seems rather far fetched. Is there a document, in the church, supporting that opinion ?

OF COURSE NOT! Are you kidding me???? Do you think that a church that has spent decades covering up sexual abuse would admit openly that one reason why Saturday mass was implemented was to get more people who spend their Saturday nights partying into the pews sometime rather than not at all on Sunday morning? Quite a lot of hard-drinking German Catholics of my acquaintance jokingly claimed that they suspected this was why Saturday mass was instituted. Anyway, they took full advantage of the opportunity generally.

Hmmm...upon checking, turns out that I'm wrong that the hippie movement of the 1960's could have influenced this change since the Saturday mass was authorized by Vat2 in the first half of the 1960's. Thus, it would have pre-dated the hippie movement having had much influence upon religious attitudes.

Guess I was thinking of the fact that there was no Saturday mass in my childhood parish until the early 1970's and assumed wrongly that that timing was universal.

Seems to have been a change that resulted from John 23rd's desire to make Catholicism more user-friendly.

As for there not being churches that had confession before Sunday morning mass, you apparently never attended a church where that was done; I did.
OK. well I know the confession thing on Sundays was at least diocesan wide, in some places. I could be wrong about that, in general. I jumped the fence when I was in 2nd grade.

BTW, welcome. I didn't notice you were new.

And not to nit-pick, but the fact that Joe Raty yells about secularism today, is really unrelated to the actual causes of it. He is constantly yelling, but my point is, they actually played a (big ?) part in it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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