What does a hamster know?
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24-08-2016, 04:02 PM
What does a hamster know?
Hi,

Our hamster knows a lot about food. He can tell the difference between supermarket cheese and expensive artisan cheese every time. If I offer him a choice of little cheese pieces, he will take the artisan first. So I tried an experiment and offered him Parmesan cheese. He took this over the supermarket cheese and the artisan Cheddar.

Also, if we offer him a piece of carrot he will pull at it, but with cheese he takes it very gently, obviously aware of the crumbly nature of cheese. Then he eats it very slowly, and the better the cheese the slower he eats it, with great concentration.

Apart from his regular grain food, I give him a tiny bit of cheese in the evenings at about 11.30pm and he is always waiting in the same place (he has a very big house) at that time.

So, do we tend to underestimate animals knowledge and discernment? I think I did.

D.
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24-08-2016, 04:07 PM
RE: What does a hamster know?
(24-08-2016 04:02 PM)Dworkin Wrote:  Hi,

Our hamster knows a lot about food. He can tell the difference between supermarket cheese and expensive artisan cheese every time. If I offer him a choice of little cheese pieces, he will take the artisan first. So I tried an experiment and offered him Parmesan cheese. He took this over the supermarket cheese and the artisan Cheddar.

Also, if we offer him a piece of carrot he will pull at it, but with cheese he takes it very gently, obviously aware of the crumbly nature of cheese. Then he eats it very slowly, and the better the cheese the slower he eats it, with great concentration.

Apart from his regular grain food, I give him a tiny bit of cheese in the evenings at about 11.30pm and he is always waiting in the same place (he has a very big house) at that time.

So, do we tend to underestimate animals knowledge and discernment? I think I did.

D.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-08-2016, 04:08 PM
RE: What does a hamster know?
I have a hamster too Thumbsup
[Image: 1424528952xhamster.jpg]

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24-08-2016, 04:12 PM
RE: What does a hamster know?
(24-08-2016 04:02 PM)Dworkin Wrote:  Hi,

Our hamster knows a lot about food. He can tell the difference between supermarket cheese and expensive artisan cheese every time. If I offer him a choice of little cheese pieces, he will take the artisan first. So I tried an experiment and offered him Parmesan cheese. He took this over the supermarket cheese and the artisan Cheddar.

Also, if we offer him a piece of carrot he will pull at it, but with cheese he takes it very gently, obviously aware of the crumbly nature of cheese. Then he eats it very slowly, and the better the cheese the slower he eats it, with great concentration.

Apart from his regular grain food, I give him a tiny bit of cheese in the evenings at about 11.30pm and he is always waiting in the same place (he has a very big house) at that time.

So, do we tend to underestimate animals knowledge and discernment? I think I did.

D.

Of course he knows what he likes and what he doesn't, and where and when the food is. You can train him to jump through a hoop for his cheese too, and various other things. All creatures are used to being able to work for their food, and in his case, there are very few things available to him to make it happen - like being in the right place at the right time. Yes, you do underestimate him. Most animals thrive on learning things - they don't see it as doing what you want, they see it as the ability to make something happen.

Rats are much smarter yet!

Be very careful - if he bags the cheese and it melts, he can suffocate.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-08-2016, 04:54 PM
RE: What does a hamster know?
(24-08-2016 04:02 PM)Dworkin Wrote:  Hi,

Our hamster knows a lot about food. He can tell the difference between supermarket cheese and expensive artisan cheese every time. If I offer him a choice of little cheese pieces, he will take the artisan first. So I tried an experiment and offered him Parmesan cheese. He took this over the supermarket cheese and the artisan Cheddar.

Also, if we offer him a piece of carrot he will pull at it, but with cheese he takes it very gently, obviously aware of the crumbly nature of cheese. Then he eats it very slowly, and the better the cheese the slower he eats it, with great concentration.

Apart from his regular grain food, I give him a tiny bit of cheese in the evenings at about 11.30pm and he is always waiting in the same place (he has a very big house) at that time.

So, do we tend to underestimate animals knowledge and discernment? I think I did.

D.

A lot of animals are intelligent. Like really intelligent. They put one and one together in ways we would have assumed was purely instinct or rote not too long ago. They think through stuff. I am thinking hamsters would be one those.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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24-08-2016, 04:58 PM (This post was last modified: 24-08-2016 05:03 PM by unsapien.)
RE: What does a hamster know?
Be aware of the trap of Anthropomorphism.

(24-08-2016 04:02 PM)Dworkin Wrote:  Our hamster knows a lot about food. He can tell the difference between supermarket cheese and expensive artisan cheese every time. If I offer him a choice of little cheese pieces, he will take the artisan first. So I tried an experiment and offered him Parmesan cheese. He took this over the supermarket cheese and the artisan Cheddar.

It maybe that it doesn't recognise processed cheese as cheese. I grew up on a farm and ate burgers from animals raised on our farm, when I moved to the city I couldn't eat what came out of the fast food restaurants, it didn't taste normal.

Spoiled milk curdles especially quickly in the hamsters natural habitat (which would is the middle east) so it might be adapted to eating cheese "like" food.

(24-08-2016 04:02 PM)Dworkin Wrote:  Also, if we offer him a piece of carrot he will pull at it, but with cheese he takes it very gently, obviously aware of the crumbly nature of cheese. Then he eats it very slowly, and the better the cheese the slower he eats it, with great concentration.

A hamster diet is usually vegetarian so it wants the carrot, celery, lettuce etc... It may just be eating the cheese because it is hungry and that is all that is on offer.

Have you tried offering it a carrot and cheese at the same time and seeing which it goes for first?

(24-08-2016 04:02 PM)Dworkin Wrote:  So, do we tend to underestimate animals knowledge and discernment? I think I did.

D.

My jury is still in deliberation.

I've seen a ewe allow a lamb, that she knew was not hers but was part of the flock, to suckle milk from her.

But I've also seen one "head butt" a lamb, that was hers, away every time it tried to suckle from her, so we had to take it away and bottle feed it our selves.

All I know is that hamster and human alike...




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24-08-2016, 05:10 PM
RE: What does a hamster know?
Lemmiwinks has been around.
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24-08-2016, 05:24 PM
RE: What does a hamster know?
(24-08-2016 04:58 PM)unsapien Wrote:  Be aware of the trap of Anthropomorphism.

(24-08-2016 04:02 PM)Dworkin Wrote:  Our hamster knows a lot about food. He can tell the difference between supermarket cheese and expensive artisan cheese every time. If I offer him a choice of little cheese pieces, he will take the artisan first. So I tried an experiment and offered him Parmesan cheese. He took this over the supermarket cheese and the artisan Cheddar.

I get that about reading too much into things from our perspective. But for mammals, just because we share an evolutionary history, I think the mind, is not entirely spared this shared history. Yes we diverge, but some ancestral traits, some we have been conditioned to think are uniquely human, will often show up.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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24-08-2016, 05:50 PM
RE: What does a hamster know?
There are things we have in common and things we don't.

When animals reason, they do it only in linear fashion. 1 leads to 2 leads to 3. The connection between 1 and 2 is made, the connection between 2 and 3 is made, but the connection between 1 and 3 is never made.

They do have the basic emotions, but you have to be careful not to call human constructs "emotion". One example is guilt. It's a human construct. Animals do not feel guilt.

If your dog looks guilty to you, he feels you are angry and is trying to make himself small, letting everything hang down. Looks guilty as heck to us. It's not guilt. He usually has no idea what you are angry about (see linear reasoning, if anything at all happened between his mis-step and your anger, no connection).

Some animals are smarter than others, but they all have linear reasoning and it is up to you to teach within those limitations. All animals can be taught things by using food (even fish). Some animals will do it for affection (like dogs).

Most times people declare the animal stupid, when in reality the human is too stupid to understand how the animal reasons.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-08-2016, 06:20 PM
RE: What does a hamster know?
(24-08-2016 05:50 PM)Dom Wrote:  There are things we have in common and things we don't.

When animals reason, they do it only in linear fashion. 1 leads to 2 leads to 3. The connection between 1 and 2 is made, the connection between 2 and 3 is made, but the connection between 1 and 3 is never made.

They do have the basic emotions, but you have to be careful not to call human constructs "emotion". One example is guilt. It's a human construct. Animals do not feel guilt.

If your dog looks guilty to you, he feels you are angry and is trying to make himself small, letting everything hang down. Looks guilty as heck to us. It's not guilt. He usually has no idea what you are angry about (see linear reasoning, if anything at all happened between his mis-step and your anger, no connection).

Some animals are smarter than others, but they all have linear reasoning and it is up to you to teach within those limitations. All animals can be taught things by using food (even fish). Some animals will do it for affection (like dogs).

Most times people declare the animal stupid, when in reality the human is too stupid to understand how the animal reasons.

A lesson learned most completely by a parent.

A newborn cries; food & comfort follows, etc (linear)

But as they grow in intelligence their higher reasoning kicks in, then come the more complex thoughts and emotions; tantrums for attention and/or manipulation etc, learning by observing actions and reactions.

And if you did your job right... they become young adults that piss you off cause they have intelligent answers as to why you don't have to keep lecturing them do what you say because you raised them right and they are now smart enough to think for themselves.

sorry got a little Offtopic

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