What does it mean to be "An all knowing god" ?
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06-01-2012, 10:31 PM
What does it mean to be "An all knowing god" ?
There are many avenues you can taking when it comes to the question of an "all knowing" god. One could say that a god with this ability would know every action you would ever take in advance and then would perhaps construct a torture chamber for you, just for the hell of it, even though he already knows what you will do.

I wanted to discuss an aspect of this "all knowing" that I seldom ever hear about.

When a child is hungry or perhaps needs changing, it will cry and sometimes scream out. We are very aware of this because we can hear the cry. We can hear the scream. Let's say that you could hear all the screams of all the babies, all the time, without end. You would know in at least this one detail that they were hungry because you would hear them all.

To be all knowing means to not only know it all, but to feel it at, to hear it all.
Imagine being a god that felt the suffering and torment of not just one person in hell, but every person that ever went there for all eternity. A million billion agonies that would never end and you would feel all of it.

I would contend that such a being would be incapable of doing anything, much like an extremely autistic child who must shut out the world to preserve their sanity.

Do you really want to give a god the attribute of "all knowing" ?
That would seem a cruel fate.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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06-01-2012, 10:38 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "An all knowing god" ?
Anything I would ascribe to be all knowing would have the knowledge of the way to perfectly handle all of these issues you speak of and things such as over chaotic prayer and pain in humanity.

If he doesn't know all the ways to handle everything perfectly good in his being then he is only all knowing of the negative instead of positive as well.

Thinking of this topic makes me understand why "Mr. Deity" turned off his all knowingness. (Reference to the hilarious internet series)
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06-01-2012, 11:02 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "An all knowing god" ?
Knowing how to handle extreme pain would mean that you would reduce it's effect on you, thus reducing the all knowing aspect of it. If god isn't feeling every torture, then he isn't knowing how it all feels. And I would also add that no pleasure can ever begin to compare to pain. Take the most pleasure you have ever felt and then try to balance that out with someone dragging you naked through a cactus field while hitting you in the face with a shovel. It's why we avoid pain at all costs, because it hurts. It hurts a lot and it continues to hurt until we remove us from that source of pain. God sending people to hell, would be like us putting our hands in a fire - We know the pain. It's why we don't do it.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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07-01-2012, 12:19 AM
RE: What does it mean to be "An all knowing god" ?
(06-01-2012 11:02 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Knowing how to handle extreme pain would mean that you would reduce it's effect on you, thus reducing the all knowing aspect of it. If god isn't feeling every torture, then he isn't knowing how it all feels. And I would also add that no pleasure can ever begin to compare to pain. Take the most pleasure you have ever felt and then try to balance that out with someone dragging you naked through a cactus field while hitting you in the face with a shovel. It's why we avoid pain at all costs, because it hurts. It hurts a lot and it continues to hurt until we remove us from that source of pain. God sending people to hell, would be like us putting our hands in a fire - We know the pain. It's why we don't do it.

Basically you are describing the Judaeo/Christian stereotype God.

Very roughly speaking some philosophers, Kant for one, toyed with the idea that "we", 'us' 'they' etc are somehow? co Universal creators at the spiritual level and as such would be responsible, at least partially, for both pleasure and pain.
Such an idea is more compatbible to the Eastern notions of reincarnation which unfortunately leads to a whole host of other problems...............Dodgy
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07-01-2012, 08:11 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "An all knowing god" ?
You have the three "omnis" where this "all knowing god" that you mentioned is one of them:

Omniscience = god is infinite in regards to his knowledge past, present and future

And then the other two
Omnipresence = god is everywhere imaginable
Omnipotence = god has unlimited power and can do anything/everything at any time

When this god is described by the religions, I have found they reach to the omnis for their explanation. But the thing is, all three contradict themselves in so many ways. To be an all knowing god as a result is a contradiction in itself especially when you then describe this god with other adjectives such as the other omnis.

This blog entry (below) I find may help you further in this. Its not long entry at all so should only take a couple of minutes of your time at the least.

http://britishfemaleatheist.wordpress.co...s-teacher/

Quote:"Religion poisons everything." - Christopher Hitchens
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07-01-2012, 08:28 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "An all knowing god" ?
From my physicalist viewpoint, omniscience is logically impossible anyway. In order for some data to be "known" it must be represented by the physical properties of some matter. In humans, that is the neurons of the brain. In a computer, it's the matter in the hard drive and RAM that stores the information. For a being to know all information, it must have at least as much matter as the universe itself to represent all the information in the universe. Such a being could know everything in our universe, but it would require more matter to know itself, which means there is now more matter it cannot know, and so on ad infinitum.
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07-01-2012, 09:11 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "An all knowing god" ?
"Knowing" is anthropomorphism. If there were to be a god, it would have to "be" outside the realm of it's creature, "space-time". The concept of "knowing" implies a process is ongoing. THAT requires time, (to procede). It's simply a philosophical error, they never thought of or didn't realise, (that the dimensions of space-time began with the Big Bang). That goes for all the other anthropomorphic concepts also attributed to god(s)...loving, creating, existing, begetting, bla, bla, bla .

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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08-01-2012, 02:16 AM
RE: What does it mean to be "An all knowing god" ?
I think when people give gods or superheroes attributes, they can at times not think those attributes through to see if that is really a good thing for a god to have. For instance. giving Superman incredible hearing that he can hear sound from all over the world. Just the idea of being able to hear all the rapes going on around the world and not being able to truly do anything about them, would be mind shattering. I don't think the theists ever really think about what their god must hear and see on a daily basis and what their inaction really means (if such a being existed). Even as a mental construct of what I would think a god would experience would be horrific and this is just one planet in a universe of billions of galaxies. I really don't think a theist can comprehend the level of awareness that a god would need to have or experience to be "all knowing". I still find it hard for me to get the image out of my mind of a god who would experience all the tortures of all the souls sent to hell for all time.

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08-01-2012, 02:20 AM
RE: What does it mean to be "An all knowing god" ?
Ask God. He'd know.

Waka waka... holy shit I'm so tired I'm delerious.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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08-01-2012, 01:45 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "An all knowing god" ?
It's the monotheistic monopoly, nothing more. It is just a way to say omnimax god is better/greater/more than all other gods. Comes from a bunch of idiots who are unaware that zero is the mirror of infinity. Socrates knew, when he stated, the thing I know is that I know nothing. The thing I know is that I love my Gwynnies. Like Socrates, this philosopher begins with one. To begin with the infinite is to be unaware that one knows zero. Big Grin

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