What does it mean to be "Spiritual but not Religious"?
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20-09-2017, 04:02 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "Spiritual but not Religious"?
(20-09-2017 04:00 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(20-09-2017 03:55 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I don't come out and tell everyone I'm an atheist or spiritual atheist or cultural xtian atheist. I don't like labels so I don't typically categorize myself as anything. It's only when I'm asked what my "beliefs" are and then I will say "spiritual atheist." And the reason I use that term is because, as others have mentioned, it's kind of a loose term, with multiple definitions--one of which (via the dictionary) is "affecting the human spirit." And like "spirituality," the term "spirit" also has multiple dictionary definitions, one of which is "those qualities regarded as forming the definitive or typical elements in the character of a person."

As such, in keeping with these loose definitions, I choose to use the word spiritual atheist because: Yoga--the exercises, health, wellness aspects, and philosophy affect who I am as a person. And atheist because I don't believe in or practice woo. And I use this term as mentioned previosuly simply for simplicity sake. Because otherwise I have to go into a whole monologue about I'm an atheist who has implemented some aspects of yogic texts into the way I live my life, etc etc etc and so on and so forth. I just find it easier to say "spiritual atheist."

It's certainly not 'simple' though adding 'spiritual' may be softer.

Call yourself what you will but don't pretend that woo isn't a part of it. And I have read the previous posts and don't need any of it repeated...it's pretty clear.

Well, I think we just have to agree to disagree Smile Sorry for repeating, I just know soemtimes when the threads start going, I sometimes miss pieces of what various posters say. So just doing a recap. Wink

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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20-09-2017, 04:32 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "Spiritual but not Religious"?
(20-09-2017 11:23 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  Sorry, misread your post.

No worries, sometimes (often... most of the time...) the connection between the things I say (which I swear, is usually there, at least in my addled brain ;-)) is hard to fathom Rolleyes

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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20-09-2017, 05:25 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "Spiritual but not Religious"?
What if someone said they were religious but not spiritual?

I'd think they meant that they follow the doctrine of a religion for practical reasons but don't believe in the supernatural or mythological. It depends on how you define it, but to me, the woo mostly comes from the spiritual aspects.
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20-09-2017, 05:42 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "Spiritual but not Religious"?
(20-09-2017 01:32 AM)DLJ Wrote:  It might be the way I'm reading it (i.e. my own biases) but that struck me as an 'antithetically' rather than an 'exactly'.

Although both positions (not yoga positions; philosophical positions) are sensual, one (Jenny's) strikes me as related to, to steal from Kant, phenomena and the other (Thump's) as related to noumena.

One has the self as the fixed point and the universe as the variable; the other has the universe as fixed and the self as the variable.

One is outside-in (internalising) and the other is inside-out (externalising).

Or to put another way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fADr-rIIC78

vs.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEfVxJ6ngy0

In a sense you're right: I define myself in terms of the world I experience. Some of those experiences my language cannot really describe. At those times, I can only indulge in experiencing the moment. That is my definition -- and experience -- of spirituality.

It is an emotional experience, not easily relayed for obvious reasons, but that doesn't mean that I don't experience them. It only means that that is where language and the rationality which it speaks breaks down, for me.

Perhaps if I had a greater command of the language I could convey it. But I don't, so I cannot.
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20-09-2017, 05:46 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "Spiritual but not Religious"?
(20-09-2017 05:25 PM)ImFred Wrote:  What if someone said they were religious but not spiritual?

I'd think they meant that they follow the doctrine of a religion for practical reasons but don't believe in the supernatural or mythological. It depends on how you define it, but to me, the woo mostly comes from the spiritual aspects.

I can understand that. To me, the woo comes from the belief in a deity. But I can see how others would feel differently. Would you guys mind if I made this a poll question? I am interested to see what others think. Maybe I am using the wrong term and maybe I am viewing woo definition incorrectly. Anyway, I am always open to see how others think.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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20-09-2017, 05:49 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "Spiritual but not Religious"?
(20-09-2017 03:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The burden is on materialists to demonstrate exactly what material components a thought reduces to, and they, above all, are not allowed to speculate.

Sorry, but materialists don't have to be reductionists or to demonstrate anything of the kind. New properties emerge with complex arrangements of matter. Such properties can't be reduced at all, since they only exist with complexity.

We know the material world exists, but we don't know any spiritual world exists. That's going strictly by appearances. So the burden of proof falls on spiritualists.
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20-09-2017, 05:50 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "Spiritual but not Religious"?
(20-09-2017 11:27 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(18-09-2017 07:13 PM)jennybee Wrote:  For me it's not just self-awareness, it's that I also implement yogic philosophy via ancient texts into my life. That's why I use the term "spiritual" because I'm not really sure what else you would call it without my getting into a whole soliloquy (The whole I'm an atheist who follows a sattvic diet, uses chakras, says om, follows yogic philosophy, etc, thing). If there was another term that better describes my philosophy of life, I would gladly use it. I certainly don't use the term to feel special-I just think it's the best term available to describe my philosophy of life.

(20-09-2017 12:28 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Sure. Try telling that to people who import their own values into that word "spirituality" -- because as much as they complain that it is not defined, they sure do gripe against it wherever they see it. <shrug>


I didn't import my own values into the assessment that this is woo/religion. I read the description written.

- Implementing the teachings of ancient texts
- following the diet from same
- using chakras
- etc...

Where did I import my own definition into this definition?

I didn't say you did. I said "try telling that to people who import their own values [...]" which is obviously an unstated number but not necessarily comprehensive.

If you're happy going with the given definition, great, more power to you. I wasn't doing that -- which I think is obvious, given that I laid out my own views on it. I don't engage in woo, chakras, religious texts, or any of that shit, which is probably why I didn't mention them.
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20-09-2017, 05:51 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "Spiritual but not Religious"?
(20-09-2017 05:50 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(20-09-2017 11:27 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I didn't import my own values into the assessment that this is woo/religion. I read the description written.

- Implementing the teachings of ancient texts
- following the diet from same
- using chakras
- etc...

Where did I import my own definition into this definition?

I didn't say you did. I said "try telling that to people who import their own values [...]" which is obviously an unstated number but not necessarily comprehensive.

If you're happy going with the given definition, great, more power to you. I wasn't doing that -- which I think is obvious, given that I laid out my own views on it. I don't engage in woo, chakras, religious texts, or any of that shit, which is probably why I didn't mention them.

She was referring to my post.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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20-09-2017, 06:03 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "Spiritual but not Religious"?
(20-09-2017 12:22 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Woo-pologetics.

The original texts/teachings are now interpreted in a different way to fit the person/situation.

So what? All texts, religious and non-religious, are interpreted, this post included.

(20-09-2017 03:45 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Yet the need to classify yourself as a 'spiritual' atheist is there.

Why do you call it a "need"? All she's saying is how she does it.

(20-09-2017 04:00 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Call yourself what you will but don't pretend that woo isn't a part of it. And I have read the previous posts and don't need any of it repeated...it's pretty clear.

You really haven't made any real case for saying this about JB. Perhaps this is where you're importing your own notions? She's has made it abundantly clear that her focus is on the practical benefits of using the ideas without assigning any deity or woo to them.

(20-09-2017 05:51 PM)jennybee Wrote:  She was referring to my post.

She included mine in there. It seemed appropriate to point out that the lumping wasn't really accurate.
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20-09-2017, 06:08 PM
RE: What does it mean to be "Spiritual but not Religious"?
(20-09-2017 06:03 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(20-09-2017 12:22 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Woo-pologetics.

The original texts/teachings are now interpreted in a different way to fit the person/situation.

So what? All texts, religious and non-religious, are interpreted, this post included.

(20-09-2017 03:45 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Yet the need to classify yourself as a 'spiritual' atheist is there.

Why do you call it a "need"? All she's saying is how she does it.

(20-09-2017 04:00 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Call yourself what you will but don't pretend that woo isn't a part of it. And I have read the previous posts and don't need any of it repeated...it's pretty clear.

You really haven't made any real case for saying this about JB. Perhaps this is where you're importing your own notions? She's has made it abundantly clear that her focus is on the practical benefits of using the ideas without assigning any deity or woo to them.

(20-09-2017 05:51 PM)jennybee Wrote:  She was referring to my post.

She included mine in there. It seemed appropriate to point out that the lumping wasn't really accurate.

This has pretty much been a back and forth between JB and I. Why are you so involved?

Read the first post from JB...it wasn't until questioned that all the many explanations came up that negate the first.

JB is pretty much able to handle herself...the knight on a steed isn't really needed...though expected.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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