What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
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01-07-2016, 11:08 PM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
An excuse.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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02-07-2016, 12:05 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
Despair. No matter what you do, you are insignificant in the eyes of the god you worship.
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02-07-2016, 01:12 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
If we're founding an Atheist Church, I want to nominate the Fraggles as our prophets.



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02-07-2016, 02:04 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
Religion offers the lazy consumer the generic, default , second rate answer to the search for meaning. Religion is for the intellectually feeble, the gullible, the easily led. It's for the type of people who queue to buy Macdonalds.

It also offers priests, who are, generally speaking, otherwise useless, a job and an income.
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02-07-2016, 01:09 PM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
Religion offer lack of responsibility - whatever you fuck up you could always blame on god plan. Religion is blanket to hide under for kids afraid of facing reality.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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02-07-2016, 01:21 PM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(01-07-2016 06:52 PM)neilxt Wrote:  This follows on from the line of thought I was talking about earlier, where morality comes from and it's a question worth asking. I think all of us here can agree that truth isn't even a small part of it but is is still beguiling and I think an underlying reason for that is the same answer as my other question: community.

At the top level a religion is a community that operates in some respects like a nation but at the bottom level individual churches operate as distinct and personal communities on the scale of a small tribe, with similar goals, a mutual interest, and must importantly mutual aid, comfort, and support... and regular meetings, too. And the hierarchy of the church supports the individual churches. People who move to a new area can find a community to join with a ready nade "in" to that community based on their shared religion. That's a very useful and valuable resource and when people think about losing their religion that is a huge thing to lose. There is even some scientific evidence that the religious impulse is somehow linked to the impulse to be part of a community.

Humanists are striving to fill that gap, but are pretty unfocused in doing so and there is no other significant way in which atheist fill, or even can fill, that gap.On one level "the state" takes some of the strain but only in an impersonal way.That could also explain the church's antipathy to state welfare, because it undermines one of the legs that supports the church.

What the church has that atheism lacks is a community.

Atheism has absolutely nothing to say about morality or anything else. Atheism isn't a belief or a philosophy. All it is is a rejection of a claim made by theists that a supernatural being exists that created the world. Atheists have no responsibility to provide a moral code or fill any gaps in anyone's knowledge. What's needed is not a community but rational philosophy. If a community exists but has all the wrong ideas it will get nowhere.

Morality in essence is the answer to the question: If I want to have the best life possible, what should I do? Morality is a type of knowledge just like any other such as how to grow a crop, sharpen a tool, make steel, fight disease or fly a plane. The only viable way I know of to get knowledge is reason. Reason is the how of knowing. Reality is the what of knowing. Man exists in reality and thus there are things to know about him. What kind of food does one need, how many hours of sound sleep per night is optimal, what type of shelter and how to build it, how to get food, how to make tools, and how we should treat other men when we live together with them. All of this has to be discovered and just like any knowledge, reason is the tool to do that and the tool to organize and deal with knowledge. Reason is the faculty which identifies and integrates the material brought in by the senses. Logic is the method of reasoning. It's the law of identity applied to the task of identifying. The facts of reality are what we must identify and integrate. That's what knowledge is, a mental grasp of the facts of reality integrated into a consistent whole. We grasp these facts first by looking (and touching, smelling, tasting and hearing) outward at the world, then we integrate what we perceive into concepts.

Faith is the opposite of reason. It operates by looking inward to the contents of the imagination, emotions, wishes and desires and then treating these things as facts. Faith replaces the facts of reality with fantasies. Faith is belief in the imaginary. It is not a tool of knowledge but of evasion. It destroys the mind's ability to deal with reality which means with the ability to live ones life to the fullest.

If you wonder why man has made so much progress technologically and scientifically but has not progressed morally it is because when dealing with nature, reason rules, but when dealing with men we throw reason out the window and appeal to the supernatural for answers. Until this dichotomy is dropped and we deal with reality as a whole, with reason, we will see this gap widen, if we survive.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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02-07-2016, 08:48 PM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(01-07-2016 06:52 PM)neilxt Wrote:  What the church has that atheism lacks is a community.

You are here, aren't you?
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02-07-2016, 09:20 PM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
Hope.


But it doesn't make it true and it offers me none because I'm not an idiot.
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02-07-2016, 09:22 PM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(02-07-2016 09:20 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Hope.


But it doesn't make it true and it offers me none because I'm not an idiot.

Actually, empty promises.
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02-07-2016, 10:08 PM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(01-07-2016 06:52 PM)neilxt Wrote:  [...] What the church has that atheism lacks is a community.

A congregation drawn together by a shared fear of science and the unknown is hardly a "community" in the literal sense.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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