What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
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03-07-2016, 08:49 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 08:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 08:09 AM)Anjele Wrote:  The other graph is based on how often religious people attend church.

Some people who identify as religious don't attend services on a regular basis, or at all. Atheists aren't even in the equation.

Again, it's a citation that doesn't back what you say.

Of course it doesn't if you read it as supportive of something I didn't suggest.

The question you earlier suggested, "I can't imagine what that sort of preaching does to a person when they have endured it from the cradle."

My studies, at least show that while you might imagine negative effects among those exposed to common christian preachings from the cradle, the opposite seems to be true, that overall, individuals who attend church (exposed to such preachings frequently), show positive effects on well-being surveys.

We have already established that not all churches preach in the hellfire and brimstone style. So your numbers cannot be said to be solely from that sort of religious teaching.

What your first graph shows is that there is little difference between the self-proclaimed Very Religious, Moderately Religious, and Non-Religious with regard to their self-proclaimed wellbeing.

Now if your religious groups scored 80 and the non-religious scored 25, I might say there is some validity. As it stands the numbers are just too close to make the assertion that you made regarding religious people scoring higher.

Shouldn't you be in church?

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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03-07-2016, 09:01 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 06:28 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-07-2016 06:52 PM)neilxt Wrote:  Humanists are striving to fill that gap, but are pretty unfocused in doing so and there is no other significant way in which atheist fill, or even can fill, that gap.On one level "the state" takes some of the strain but only in an impersonal way.That could also explain the church's antipathy to state welfare, because it undermines one of the legs that supports the church.

The problem with humanism, is that's it not very appealing, beyond wearing a pin, or an occasional bumper sticker. Humanism in an organized sense, has as much trouble, if not more trouble, putting people in their pews, as liberal/progressive christian churches do.

The attitude towards it, seems more or less seeing it as benign and harmless, but not necessarily attractive, or appealing enough to join a humanist organization, or evoke committed participation. You'll have more people interested in joining an internet group like this one, than attending a humanist service.

At least with churches, you have a community, sermons, revolving around concepts of everyday life, like forgiveness, love, goodness, charity, models to aspire to, songs that people feel moved by, passion. And contrary to popular imagination you're typical sunday service, is not devoted to preaching fire and brim stone, or about the fear of death.

All made up presumptuous bullshit, and not a shred of evidence.

The thing is, "humanists" form community in many ways, (as do religious people). So the atheists I know who *do* Loaves and Fishes, (with the Catholics) sing in RELIGIOUSLY affiliated groups, volunteer for any number of non-religious charitable community organizations do exactly what you claim your "church people" do .... without the bullshit.

I see you haven't been to any evangelical Baptist service lately, ..... the Ted Cruz variety. They most certainly do talk about how the country is going to hell in a hand-basket, and hell fire and damnation. Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-07-2016, 09:04 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 09:01 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The thing is, "humanists" form community in many ways, (as do religious people). So the atheists I know who *do* Loaves and Fishes, (with the Catholics) sing in RELIGIOUSLY affiliated groups, volunteer for any number of non-religious charitable community organizations do exactly what you claim your "church people" do .... without the bullshit.

Yet, not you though right? You haven't been particularly drawn to join your local humanist group and hold hands, singing along with them, now have you?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-07-2016, 09:08 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 09:04 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 09:01 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The thing is, "humanists" form community in many ways, (as do religious people). So the atheists I know who *do* Loaves and Fishes, (with the Catholics) sing in RELIGIOUSLY affiliated groups, volunteer for any number of non-religious charitable community organizations do exactly what you claim your "church people" do .... without the bullshit.

Yet, not you though right? You haven't been particularly drawn to join your local humanist group and hold hands, singing along with them, now have you?

Why do you have to join a group to do good things? I can attest to fact that Bucky cares about and helps people.

That he perhaps doesn't follow your narrow-minded concept of how good things must be performed doesn't mean they don't happen.

How is life with such a tight set of blinders on? You are one of the most close-minded people I have encountered.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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03-07-2016, 09:12 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 08:49 AM)Anjele Wrote:  We have already established that not all churches preach in the hellfire and brimstone style. So your numbers cannot be said to be solely from that sort of religious teaching.

Do most churches in America fall under the hellfire and brimstone category? Or just a minority of churches in America? If they're a minority, that you'll be speaking of outliers. If they are the majority, or a significant portion of overall church goes, than they survey would suggest that there's no reason to believe that they effects of exposure to such teachings, has any particular negative effect on over-all well-being.

Quote:What your first graph shows is that there is little difference between the self-proclaimed Very Religious, Moderately Religious, and Non-Religious with regard to their self-proclaimed wellbeing.

Now, the graphs show that the very religious scored modestly higher than the moderately religious, and non-religious, with regards to their self-proclaimed well being.

As the Gallop summary indicates: "The Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index comprises six sub-indexes. Very religious Americans enjoy at least modestly higher scores across most of the wellbeing areas, compared with moderately and nonreligious Americans. "

Quote:Now if your religious groups scored 80 and the non-religious scored 25, I might say there is some validity. As it stands the numbers are just too close to make the assertion that you made regarding religious people scoring higher.

The graphs are supportive that contrary to popular wisdom among secularist, there's little to no reason to assume that exposure to preachings, frequent church attendance, where children are exposed to typical religious preachings, has any particular negative effect on individual's wellbeing. In fact they effect seems to be at least more modestly positive in comparison to other groups

Quote:Shouldn't you be in church?

I work during the day, and tend service in the evenings.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-07-2016, 09:16 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 07:37 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 07:27 AM)Anjele Wrote:  At about age 11 my son went to a Christian music concert with a friend...the singer Carman if I remember correctly. He later went to a tent revival with that same friend. He came home so rattled by the screaming preacher threatening hellfire and brimstone that he has never attended another religious function. One occasion and he was done. I can't imagine what that sort of preaching does to a person when they have endured it from the cradle.

You don't have to imagine, most children are raised in a religious home, went to church. They don't seem particularly anymore maladjusted, less happy, than children raised void of attending church. And most wellbeing indexes, place individuals that attend church, higher in a variety of areas, than those that don't.

However children of atheist parents are probably more altruistic than religious children.

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abst...15)01167-7

http://www.scarymommy.com/study-shows-at...ious-kids/

"Wellbeing"? Some of the most messed up people I've ever known were raised in hyper-religious homes. To be told you and everyone in the world was born a sinner is such a negative way to view the world but christianity essentially teaches this. Christian dogma then instructs its followers that the only possible way to break this curse is through the blood sacrifice of some guy on a stick. What a dreadful, dreadful religion.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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03-07-2016, 09:19 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 09:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 08:49 AM)Anjele Wrote:  We have already established that not all churches preach in the hellfire and brimstone style. So your numbers cannot be said to be solely from that sort of religious teaching.

Do most churches in America fall under the hellfire and brimstone category? Or just a minority of churches in America? If they're a minority, that you'll be speaking of outliers. If they are the majority, or a significant portion of overall church goes, than they survey would suggest that there's no reason to believe that they effects of exposure to such teachings, has any particular negative effect on over-all well-being.

Quote:What your first graph shows is that there is little difference between the self-proclaimed Very Religious, Moderately Religious, and Non-Religious with regard to their self-proclaimed wellbeing.

Now, the graphs show that the very religious scored modestly higher than the moderately religious, and non-religious, with regards to their self-proclaimed well being.

As the Gallop summary indicates: "The Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index comprises six sub-indexes. Very religious Americans enjoy at least modestly higher scores across most of the wellbeing areas, compared with moderately and nonreligious Americans. "

Quote:Now if your religious groups scored 80 and the non-religious scored 25, I might say there is some validity. As it stands the numbers are just too close to make the assertion that you made regarding religious people scoring higher.

The graphs are supportive that contrary to popular wisdom among secularist, there's little to no reason to assume that exposure to preachings, frequent church attendance, where children are exposed to typical religious preachings, has any particular negative effect on individual's wellbeing. In fact they effect seems to be at least more modestly positive in comparison to other groups

Quote:Shouldn't you be in church?

I work during the day, and tend service in the evenings.

Just how accurate do you think people are when they respond to polls regarding their religiosity or lack thereof and their well-being, which is subjective.

Regardless, the numbers are too small to even be referred to as modest. And you ignore the fact that the Non-religious score higher than the Moderately religious.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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03-07-2016, 09:21 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 09:04 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 09:01 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The thing is, "humanists" form community in many ways, (as do religious people). So the atheists I know who *do* Loaves and Fishes, (with the Catholics) sing in RELIGIOUSLY affiliated groups, volunteer for any number of non-religious charitable community organizations do exactly what you claim your "church people" do .... without the bullshit.

Yet, not you though right? You haven't been particularly drawn to join your local humanist group and hold hands, singing along with them, now have you?

You know that how ? Of course you *need* to tell yourself that. More attempts at deflection. The FACT is, there are many alternative to "church-going" that provide THE SAME (perceived) benefits and community. I have friends and belong to a number of organizations that are 'charitable". I don't need to be in a "humanist pew". In fact I was at a church service yesterday, why would I "join hands" in a crappy humanist church, when I can participate with the best choral groups (some church related) in San Diego, (and Boston, during the summer) ... idiot.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-07-2016, 09:21 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
I forgot that the other day you stated that you come here to argue.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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03-07-2016, 09:33 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 09:16 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  However children of atheist parents are probably more altruistic than religious children.

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abst...15)01167-7

http://www.scarymommy.com/study-shows-at...ious-kids/

Sure, if we can define more altruistic as giving away little less that one sticker more in a the dictator game, out of 10 stickers, as more altruistic, in survey that doesn't break down demographic factors, and is over represented by muslims children at (530) vs christians (280).

When it comes to real world numbers in practice:

"Religious people gave, in 2000, on average $2210 per year to charity vs $642 for secular individuals and religious people volunteered 12 times a year, on average, compared to 5.8 times per year for secular individuals.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/...z4DMOGsXX2

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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