What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
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03-07-2016, 09:36 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 09:19 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Just how accurate do you think people are when they respond to polls regarding their religiosity or lack thereof and their well-being, which is subjective.

Regardless, the numbers are too small to even be referred to as modest. And you ignore the fact that the Non-religious score higher than the Moderately religious.

Yet, those who attend church, exposed to religious preaching, the most frequently, every Sunday, yields no particular negative effect on well being, in fact is seem to have a modestly positive effect.

The only point that needs to be acknowledged is this, for those who want to imply it has a negative effect. I'm not arguing that being religious makes you considerably happier than being non-religious, just that it doesn't make you less happy.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-07-2016, 09:43 AM (This post was last modified: 03-07-2016 09:51 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 09:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  We have already established that not all churches preach in the hellfire and brimstone style. So your numbers cannot be said to be solely from that sort of religious teaching.

No one goes to "all churches". They usually pick one, (or try a few). The fact is, Fundmentalist Evangelicals are KNOWN for their narrow minded bullshit, and you know it. The damage is done individually ... not collectively. Your point is meaningless.

Quote:I work during the day, and tend service in the evenings.

You can't possibly be serious.
We're supposed to believe that someone who has a PhD in religion doesn't know that it's "attend service", not "tend" service. I think you best "tend to your knitting" or "tend your sheep", and leave the "attending" to people who actually know something.

Facepalm

Fuck

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-07-2016, 09:46 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 09:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 08:49 AM)Anjele Wrote:  We have already established that not all churches preach in the hellfire and brimstone style. So your numbers cannot be said to be solely from that sort of religious teaching.

Do most churches in America fall under the hellfire and brimstone category? Or just a minority of churches in America? If they're a minority, that you'll be speaking of outliers. If they are the majority, or a significant portion of overall church goes, than they survey would suggest that there's no reason to believe that they effects of exposure to such teachings, has any particular negative effect on over-all well-being.

Quote:What your first graph shows is that there is little difference between the self-proclaimed Very Religious, Moderately Religious, and Non-Religious with regard to their self-proclaimed wellbeing.

Now, the graphs show that the very religious scored modestly higher than the moderately religious, and non-religious, with regards to their self-proclaimed well being.

As the Gallop summary indicates: "The Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index comprises six sub-indexes. Very religious Americans enjoy at least modestly higher scores across most of the wellbeing areas, compared with moderately and nonreligious Americans. "

Quote:Now if your religious groups scored 80 and the non-religious scored 25, I might say there is some validity. As it stands the numbers are just too close to make the assertion that you made regarding religious people scoring higher.

The graphs are supportive that contrary to popular wisdom among secularist, there's little to no reason to assume that exposure to preachings, frequent church attendance, where children are exposed to typical religious preachings, has any particular negative effect on individual's wellbeing. In fact they effect seems to be at least more modestly positive in comparison to other groups

Quote:Shouldn't you be in church?

I work during the day, and tend service in the evenings.

For fuck's sake, please attend a church that will teach you comma correctly. More ≠ better.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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03-07-2016, 09:50 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 09:43 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No one goes to "all churches". They usually pick one, (or try a few). The fact is, Fundmentalist Evangelicals are KNOWN for their narrow minded bullshit, and you know it. The damage is done individually ... not collectively. Your point is meaningless.

Yet, well-being surveys of the very religious, those that attend service frequently, shows that they individual well-being is modestly more positive than for other groups.

And I sincerely doubt that you as a person are anymore happier, than any random fundie evangelical. Perhaps you see yourself on the side of truth, but I doubt you see yourself also on the side of overall happiness, and contentment.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-07-2016, 09:58 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 09:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Yet, well-being surveys of the very religious, those that attend service frequently, shows that they individual well-being is modestly more positive than for other groups.

Of course they are. They are in a community that affirms their delusions.
People on drugs are very happy too.

So ..... you are proposing that the Utilitarian concept of "what maximizes hapiness" is also that which is most valuable or true. Interesting. A very slippery slope that. I see you never took an Ethics course.

Quote:And I sincerely doubt that you as a person are anymore happier, than any random fundie evangelical. Perhaps you see yourself on the side of truth, but I doubt you see yourself also on the side of overall happiness, and contentment.

LMAO. You have ABSOLUTELY no way of knowing that, you presumptuous fool.
(As a matter of fact,one of the "famous old gals" ... a professor at Harvard Divinity said to me on Friday "Well of course, you're very happy ... why is that, you're so happy ?" ... so fuck you Troll Tommy. Fuck you.

I get that you are desperate to show that you delusional system makes people happy.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-07-2016, 10:04 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 09:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So ..... you are proposing that the Utilitarian concept of "what maximizes hapiness" is also that which is most valuable or true. Interesting. A very slippery slope that. I see you never took an Ethics course.

Sure, as a believer true joy, happiness, contentment, fulfillment are linked to what is true. If this were not the case, and such a intrinsic length does not exist, than only a fool would prefer truth to happiness.

Quote:LMAO. You have ABSOLUTELY no way of knowing that, you presumptuous fool.
(As a matter of fact,one of the "famous old gals" ... a professor at Harvard Divinity said to me on Friday "Well of course, you're very happy ... why is that, you're so happy ?" ... so fuck you Troll Tommy. Fuck you.

I get that you are desperate to show that you delusional system makes people happy.

So why not just tell me, are you a happy man Bucky? Do you believe than you are more happier than any random fundie evangelical?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-07-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 10:04 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  more happier

Blink

The bottom line of your well-being poll is that we are all at about the same place regardless of religiosity.

So why the efforts to get others to buy into your belief system? What will that gain anyone? A fraction of a point on some totally subjective poll...whoopdefuckingdoo.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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03-07-2016, 11:10 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 11:08 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 10:04 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  more happier

Blink

The bottom line of your well-being poll is that we are all at about the same place regardless of religiosity.

So why the efforts to get others to buy into your belief system? What will that gain anyone? A fraction of a point on some totally subjective poll...whoopdefuckingdoo.

I don't care whether others here buy into my belief system and not, and spend next to time trying to convince anyone of it. I'm more interested in those who suggest that children are more empathetic when non-religious, or that being raised religious has detrimental affects on a child as opposed to being raised non-religious. In those who believe that a child raised in a typical christian home, are bound to less happy, than those raised in a godless home.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-07-2016, 11:14 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 09:46 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 09:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Do most churches in America fall under the hellfire and brimstone category? Or just a minority of churches in America? If they're a minority, that you'll be speaking of outliers. If they are the majority, or a significant portion of overall church goes, than they survey would suggest that there's no reason to believe that they effects of exposure to such teachings, has any particular negative effect on over-all well-being.


Now, the graphs show that the very religious scored modestly higher than the moderately religious, and non-religious, with regards to their self-proclaimed well being.

As the Gallop summary indicates: "The Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index comprises six sub-indexes. Very religious Americans enjoy at least modestly higher scores across most of the wellbeing areas, compared with moderately and nonreligious Americans. "


The graphs are supportive that contrary to popular wisdom among secularist, there's little to no reason to assume that exposure to preachings, frequent church attendance, where children are exposed to typical religious preachings, has any particular negative effect on individual's wellbeing. In fact they effect seems to be at least more modestly positive in comparison to other groups


I work during the day, and tend service in the evenings.

For fuck's sake, please attend a church that will teach you comma correctly. More ≠ better.

My apologies. I am not terribly skilled in the correct usage of punctuation and I tend to write the way I speak. Luckily the Nazis around here seem to give me a pass most of the time. Blush

btw - I do know this post wasn't directed at me.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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03-07-2016, 11:16 AM
RE: What does religion have to offer that atheism lacks?
(03-07-2016 11:10 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 11:08 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Blink

The bottom line of your well-being poll is that we are all at about the same place regardless of religiosity.

So why the efforts to get others to buy into your belief system? What will that gain anyone? A fraction of a point on some totally subjective poll...whoopdefuckingdoo.

I don't care whether others here buy into my belief system and not, and spend next to time trying to convince anyone of it. I'm more interested in those who suggest that children are more empathetic when non-religious, or that being raised religious has detrimental affects on a child as opposed to being raised non-religious. In those who believe that a child raised in a typical christian home, are bound to less happy, than those raised in a godless home.

A single aspect of a person's upbringing isn't going to be the sole influence on the sort of person they are/become.

This isn't a one size fits all thing...and you know that.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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