What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
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05-11-2016, 01:14 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2016 02:06 PM by Velvet.)
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
Kerim, I have some actually serious questions to you (for once).

1) Is there ANY particular reason to call some sort of very rich and influent controlling guys of ''god''? Since they are well... some sort of very rich influent controlling guys, and not at all a god?

2) Is there any reason to call the internet and all our available info, if it is a deceiving global level machine, which we (only us, the idiots, not you), fall prey, as a modern bible? if it is ''a deceiving global level machine''? Why must you use all those sorts of very shitty ways of conveying your message that makes you sound like an conspirationist? (I'm being generous here)

3) Why are you assuming we have those people as idols, when we say to you they are not our idols, if we even have any? Would I be reasonable to conclude you are a very stupid and pretentious person when you do that so many times? And if that's not the case, could you provide an alternative of why would you assume (wrongly) our idols so many times?

(My idols, If I were to have any, would be probably Socrates and Nikolai Tesla... so, you couldn't be any more wrong to assume they are ''the founding fathers'', as you said ''even if I'm not American'', news for you, I don't know about Americans (because I'm not an idiot who assume other people's idols), but here on Brazil the very few intellectuals that we have couldn't care any less for the founding fathers)

4) If we were to disregard ALL our information, because it is all made up to lead us to believe exactly what they want us to believe, the reasonable position wouldn't then be ''ok now I don't know anything, and I can't know anything'', instead of what you apply ''ok now I know all the truth, which is my unsubstantiated opinion of how things probably are''?

Those were the questions.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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05-11-2016, 05:52 PM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(05-11-2016 01:14 PM)Velvet Wrote:  1) Is there ANY particular reason to call some sort of very rich and influent controlling guys of ''god''? Since they are well... some sort of very rich influent controlling guys, and not at all a god?

This is an interesting question. Thank you.
The word 'god' refers usually to a supernatural being/entity who has the power to control the world and a certain Law as well (a heavenly one) that all human beings should follow and obey.
Although such a god doesn't exist, we cannot deny the existence of men (also women, if you like) who claim being his representatives on earth in every period of time along history. These representatives (of every god, offered on the world's table) were able (still are) convincing millions of people that their mission is true and real (hence the god they represent does exist). They couldn't do it without being first in the most powerful/rich class (religious in this case) in every region in the world. Otherwise, they couldn't have the means and the privileges to address millions of people almost daily. When I was much younger, I asked some priests: "How could the Church let millions of people believe in things not real?". I got a common answer which is something like:"... by addressing it to the entire world and via many channels and repeating it as much as possible". So if we ask a typical theist: "How are you sure that your representatives of your god say the truth". We likely hear him reply: "Don't you see? Their voice is heard in all over the world. How could this be possible to happen if they are telling lies?"

This scenario is applied in politics too. In this case, the believers are political not religious. So as the man-made god of religions doesn't exist but his powerful/rich representatives insist he does, the man-made idols of politics don't exist as well while their powerful/rich representatives insist they do Wink
And I won't be surprised if I meet a person who believes, at the same time, in the existence of both; the heavenly religious idols and the earthly political ones.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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05-11-2016, 06:32 PM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(05-11-2016 01:14 PM)Velvet Wrote:  3) Why are you assuming we have those people as idols, when we say to you they are not our idols, if we even have any? Would I be reasonable to conclude you are a very stupid and pretentious person when you do that so many times? And if that's not the case, could you provide an alternative of why would you assume (wrongly) our idols so many times?

Well, since no one dared saying what he personally believes (as you do now), the silence and insults I usually receive could mean I am not far from the truth.

I wish I know why most members here fear saying clearly and directly what they think/believe is true and real as I do. So instead of telling me the version, they know, of a fact/event/story I presented, they just comment that I am wrong... as if they think I am expecting them to say 'I am right' Wink

For example, how many friends here (sorry, if some prefer playing the enemy instead Wink ) think that the US elections are indeed free and/or democratic. On my side (based on my long observations), I just see them (mainly during the last months) a sort of national festivals to entertain the people (every 4 years), also to renew their hope of a good future (that will never happen Wink ). Do you think I will get serious replies? I hope I will.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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05-11-2016, 06:35 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2016 07:09 PM by Velvet.)
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(05-11-2016 05:52 PM)KerimF Wrote:  This is an interesting question. Thank you.
The word 'god' refers usually to a supernatural being/entity who has the power to control the world and a certain Law as well (a heavenly one) that all human beings should follow and obey.
Although such a god doesn't exist, we cannot deny the existence of men (also women, if you like) who claim being his representatives on earth in every period of time along history. These representatives (of every god, offered on the world's table) were able (still are) convincing millions of people that their mission is true and real (hence the god they represent does exist). They couldn't do it without being first in the most powerful/rich class (religious in this case) in every region in the world. Otherwise, they couldn't have the means and the privileges to address millions of people almost daily. When I was much younger, I asked some priests: "How could the Church let millions of people believe in things not real?". I got a common answer which is something like:"... by addressing it to the entire world and via many channels and repeating it as much as possible". So if we ask a typical theist: "How are you sure that your representatives of your god say the truth". We likely hear him reply: "Don't you see? Their voice is heard in all over the world. How could this be possible to happen if they are telling lies?"

Sorry but you still haven't answered the question.

They are still only a bunch of very powerful rich and influent guys who have nothing to do with magical powers or origins of the universe.

Being able to convince every people of the planet of something with a good strategy doesn't make it magical on any sense.

So what is the reason to call it a god?

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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05-11-2016, 06:40 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2016 06:46 PM by Velvet.)
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(05-11-2016 06:32 PM)KerimF Wrote:  Well, since no one dared saying what he personally believes (as you do now), the silence and insults I usually receive could mean I am not far from the truth.

I wish I know why most members here fear saying clearly and directly what they think/believe is true and real as I do. So instead of telling me the version, they know, of a fact/event/story I presented, they just comment that I am wrong... as if they think I am expecting them to say 'I am right' Wink

I think a good start to be taken seriously is not to assume what other people think or believe.

I don't know what makes you believe that they insulting you means that you are not far from the truth.

The insults are because you are assuming things about them, it doesn't matter if they are or not true, its rude and offensive, unpolite and disrespectful.

That's why the answers you get are usually insults or contempt.

Quote:For example, how many friends here (sorry, if some prefer playing the enemy instead Wink ) think that the US elections are indeed free and/or democratic. On my side (based on my long observations), I just see them (mainly during the last months) a sort of national festivals to entertain the people (every 4 years), also to renew their hope of a good future (that will never happen Wink ). Do you think I will get serious replies? I hope I will.

What makes you think that you know that many people here think that US elections are indeed free and/or democratic?

You asked them what they believe?

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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05-11-2016, 06:49 PM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(05-11-2016 01:14 PM)Velvet Wrote:  2) Is there any reason to call the internet and all our available info, if it is a deceiving global level machine, which we (only us, the idiots, not you), fall prey, as a modern bible? if it is ''a deceiving global level machine''? Why must you use all those sorts of very shitty ways of conveying your message that makes you sound like an conspirationist? (I'm being generous here)

Most of the times, when I ask someone how he became sure that this or that idea or story, he is telling me, is true I hear him say: "I read it on the internet and even saw it on TV". In other words, he simply believed it based on faith. So it became natural for me to call the new source from which many believers get the truth as their modern bible. It is as simple as this.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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05-11-2016, 06:55 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2016 07:01 PM by Velvet.)
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(05-11-2016 06:49 PM)KerimF Wrote:  Most of the times, when I ask someone how he became sure that this or that idea or story, he is telling me, is true I hear him say: "I read it on the internet and even saw it on TV". In other words, he simply believed it based on faith. So it became natural for me to call the new source from which many believers get the truth as their modern bible. It is as simple as this.

No he didn't believed based on faith (necessarily), he believed because his source has been shown reliable to him many many times, and he eventually granted trust to that source as credible.

Even then why would you use a extremely loaded term to convey your message, are you unaware this will only make it harder for you to communicate?

If I wanted to say, that this, what we are doing right now is Anal Sex... then I explain, that we are exchanging ideas, and those ideas make us very close one to another, and we have to trust each other to talk like, that in a productive way, and to avoid it being painful, so to me it looks very much like Anal Sex.

You think this term I used would help me convey my message? Or I would only fuck up my own message loading it with a bunch of unintended meaning?

You are in an atheist forum, calling something a modern Bible, and another something a God, I don't think you could have come up with any worst way of saying what you want to say.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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05-11-2016, 07:08 PM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(05-11-2016 06:40 PM)Velvet Wrote:  The insults are because you are assuming things about them, it doesn't matter if they are or not true, its rude and offensive, unpolite and disrespectful.

Therefore, their reaction should be... rude and offensive, impolite and disrespectful... even at a much higher level Wink

And, I should remember always that what some others think/believe might be secrets that no one should hear of.
Anytime I miss doing it, I will deserve being insulted legitimately Wink

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-11-2016, 07:14 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2016 07:18 PM by Velvet.)
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(05-11-2016 07:08 PM)KerimF Wrote:  
(05-11-2016 06:40 PM)Velvet Wrote:  The insults are because you are assuming things about them, it doesn't matter if they are or not true, its rude and offensive, unpolite and disrespectful.

Therefore, their reaction should be... rude and offensive, impolite and disrespectful... even at a much higher level Wink

And, I should remember always that what some others think/believe might be secrets that no one should hear of.
Anytime I miss doing it, I will deserve being insulted legitimately Wink

Their reaction might be, yes, the same of what you are doing but at much higher level, or they might treat you with contempt (which is worst), or they may ridicularize, which would be perhaps the worst possible outcome to you as someone who intend to be taken seriously.

No, you should only remember that you can't possibly know what others think or believe unless they tell you, and if you think you can you are a presumptuous ignorant.

And yes, that every time you act like a presumptuous condescending jerk people will likely insult you, and in my opinion at least, legitimately.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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05-11-2016, 07:48 PM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(05-11-2016 06:55 PM)Velvet Wrote:  You are in an atheist forum, calling something a modern Bible, and another something a God, I don't think you could have come up with any worst way of saying what you want to say.

Again, where is the problem Wink
Yes, I am here in an atheist forum where 100 persons, at most, in the world may read one (perhaps more) of my posts. I mean I would be real naïve if I expect my words may have 'any' effect on what is happening in the world; starting from here.

I got the idea to join this forum because I had the impression that I may meet in it some free independent thinkers who don't need belonging to any side (social, religious, political or even sportive Wink ) .
After a while, I found out that my expectation was wrong.
I decided to stay and write, in my free time, whatever comes to my mind till I will be banned Wink
While being sincere to no limit (as I used to in my life), I try my best not to hurt anyone in any way. But, due to the language barrier and the different cultures, some readers can always find some holes in my writings.

So I will be around here (as I am) till I die or be banned Big Grin

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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