What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
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06-10-2016, 11:43 AM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(19-08-2016 02:47 PM)KerimF Wrote:  To you personally and by using your own words, what does the word ‘god’ refer to?

"God" and/or "gods" is a term I use to define imaginary, fictional, non-existent supernatural entities that "exist" only in the minds of delusional people. In much the same way as (except in their case naively) little kids who believe in the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny, or magical unicorns.

The naivety and gullibility of adults who truly believe in the existence of supernatural entities in a scientifically-enlightened 21st century is a cause for concern—considering that some of them, such as a Pope who tacitly condones paedophilia—still exert a lot of control over millions of people globally.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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07-10-2016, 02:46 PM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
I am afraid that defining a term as being imaginary, fictional or non-existent supernatural entity (and alike) implies automatically that what it refers to doesn't exist in the first place.

In science, as in solving math problems, we can define a term x (a real number) that satisfies the equality:
x*x + 1 = 0
In this case, we can prove that x doesn't exist (as a real number).
I mean we know it doesn't exist after defining it clearly (hypothesis).

So, it seems to me that most atheists don't use, for one reason or another, the scientific logic when discussing what we may call "spiritual matters".
The reason might be, as I usually mention: An atheist is likely a human being who has only a living flesh to take care of. In this case, he needs just following the instincts of his body (its embedded instructions) to fulfil his role for which he was brought into life. Knowing anything else should be not important to him in order to live normally.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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07-10-2016, 06:26 PM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
Why you no use smiley faces anymore, Kerim?
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07-10-2016, 09:23 PM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(07-10-2016 02:46 PM)KerimF Wrote:  I am afraid that defining a term as being imaginary, fictional or non-existent supernatural entity (and alike) implies automatically that what it refers to doesn't exist in the first place.
Which is an entirely justifiable position to hold given that this species as a whole has had 6000+ years to provide a single scrap of evidence for any god or gods and the claimants to his existence have, in their entirety failed to do so and this includes you.
For fuck sake I've yet to meet one of you that can offer up a testable and demonstrable mechanism for differentiating between a "god" and something that is entirely imaginary. When gods are indistinguishable from that which is imaginary then defining them as imaginary is perfectly reasonable.

(07-10-2016 02:46 PM)KerimF Wrote:  In science, as in solving math problems.....

In this case, we can prove that x doesn't exist (as a real number).
Which would be relevant if in science we were ever required to prove that something doesn't exist but we don't. You, as the claimant to a gods existence, have to demonstrate it's existence. Not only can you not do that you can't even provide a single demonstrable, falsifiable, and testable piece of evidence. Not one.
Belief is ONLY justified after a demonstration of it's validity and/or accuracy. You have failed to do this, indeed you have offered a "hypothesis" with exactly ZERO evidence that separates it or distinguishes it from fiction.

(07-10-2016 02:46 PM)KerimF Wrote:  So, it seems to me that most atheists don't use, for one reason or another, the scientific logic when discussing what we may call "spiritual matters".
Well you would be wrong. Lets talk "scientific logic" than:
1.) You have provided no evidence for the existence of a "spirit or soul", and given that you have the responsibility to do so and we have no need to disprove your assertions...
2.) Because you have failed to do so the is no logical or rational reason to believe that a soul exists. Rational belief comes AFTER the evidence not before.
3.) Given that there is no reasonable justification for belief in the "spirit" there is also no justification for belief in, nor the need to work on, "spiritual matters".
So in conclusion you are bitching about the lack of "scientific logic" while simultaneously not applying one of the most basic tenets of science and logic. You are trying to argue the qualities of a thing you have yet to show even exists. You understand that "souls/spirits" are not a recognized phenomena in science right? You can not begin discussing the qualities of a thing until AFTER you have demonstrated it exists.
Until you provide evidence I have no reason to believe that you have ANY way of knowing if what you are talking about is factual or pulled out of your ass and given that inability I have no reason to listen or even contemplate anything you assert.

(07-10-2016 02:46 PM)KerimF Wrote:  The reason might be...
Let me stop you right there. No you are wrong. We don't give a fuck about "spiritual matters" because that is not a thing you or anyone else have shown exists. We are actually applying proper skepticism by not believing in a thing without evidence. We fit our views to the evidence and you do the opposite.

(07-10-2016 02:46 PM)KerimF Wrote:  An atheist is likely a human being who has only a living flesh to take care of.
You are wrong again. An atheist, at least in my case, is a person who evaluates the available evidence for such claims and came to the only logically consistent conclusion: there is no evidence for a god nor any mechanic as yet presented to distinguish it from fiction, imagination, or delusion.
YOUR inability to reason properly or utilize proper skepticism does not mean WE are lacking anything.

(07-10-2016 02:46 PM)KerimF Wrote:  Knowing anything else should be not important to him in order to live normally.
Knowledge is demonstrable, which you can not do. You lack any knowledge of "spiritual matters" you have belief, and an unjustified and unreasonable one at that because it exists despite the total lack of supporting evidence.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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07-10-2016, 09:35 PM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
Kerim - There are many operations that we can do in math that don't or can't copy over in reality.

There are 5 apples in a room stacked neatly in a basket for all to see. If I take 2 apples from the basket and put them on the table, how many apples are left in the basket ?

Answer is 3.
Write a formula describing this. 5-2=3

Now I put the two apples back so we once again have 5 apples in the basket.
Using this formula, (5-6= -1), I want you to remove 6 apples from the basket so that we have -1 apples left in the basket.

Negative apples don't exist, but we can still do math using negative numbers. Negative answers can give us information about the problems we solve without needing to pair 100% with reality.

For instance. I have a 10 ft board and I need three boards that are 4 ft long.
10-12= -2

I am not only 2 feet short of my goal, but the 2 ft I have left over can't be used, because I still need another 4 ft board.
10- (2*4)=2

The -2 answer from the first set, tells me I need to buy another board that is 4 ft or longer to accomplish my goal of 3 boards that 4 ft long.

The gods of religion are not negative numbers, nor are they imaginary numbers. They hold a value of zero.

10 children are suffering
Now let's add in the value of god
10+0= 10 children still suffering.

We can take every situation we find to calculate the value of any god and that value is always zero.

We can assign it a higher value in our minds, but that's where the delusion of 0 = some positive number
comes into play. You can "believe" 0 is a positive number but in reality they aren't equal.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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08-10-2016, 01:49 AM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(07-10-2016 06:26 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Why you no use smiley faces anymore, Kerim?

I guess, there will be always a certain sort of confusion for what I may do or I don't Tongue
But this happens among friends who care of each other Thumbsup

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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08-10-2016, 02:45 AM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(07-10-2016 09:35 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Kerim - There are many operations that we can do in math that don't or can't copy over in reality.

There are 5 apples in a room stacked neatly in a basket for all to see. If I take 2 apples from the basket and put them on the table, how many apples are left in the basket ?

Answer is 3.
Write a formula describing this. 5-2=3

Now I put the two apples back so we once again have 5 apples in the basket.
Using this formula, (5-6= -1), I want you to remove 6 apples from the basket so that we have -1 apples left in the basket.

Negative apples don't exist, but we can still do math using negative numbers. Negative answers can give us information about the problems we solve without needing to pair 100% with reality.

For instance. I have a 10 ft board and I need three boards that are 4 ft long.
10-12= -2

I am not only 2 feet short of my goal, but the 2 ft I have left over can't be used, because I still need another 4 ft board.
10- (2*4)=2

The -2 answer from the first set, tells me I need to buy another board that is 4 ft or longer to accomplish my goal of 3 boards that 4 ft long.

The gods of religion are not negative numbers, nor are they imaginary numbers. They hold a value of zero.

10 children are suffering
Now let's add in the value of god
10+0= 10 children still suffering.

We can take every situation we find to calculate the value of any god and that value is always zero.

We can assign it a higher value in our minds, but that's where the delusion of 0 = some positive number
comes into play. You can "believe" 0 is a positive number but in reality they aren't equal.

Thank you for your detailed comment. I think I get your point.

And from your last example, I heard you saying:
God is an entity that should intervene in the suffering of men (or kids, if you like).
In this case, you are right because this image of God has a value of 0, in reality.

Also, if we add 'God' to 10 powerful/rich men who are controlling their community, we get:
10 + 0 [God] = 10 powerful/rich men still controlling their community.

I mean if the image of God says that God has to intervene continuously in the status of the various living fleshes and/or any law (imposed on men in the name of justice which is also based on instincts), it is another man-made image of God by which the multitudes could be deceived better, hence controlled.

Men are created free. So, after the great success on 9/11/2001, the CIA (with almost all intelligences in the world) was able transforming millions of kids (victims of wars and/or poverty) to human-like robots to play the terrorists in the American international endless series "War on Terror". By the way, the American Elite (controlling America) insist in saving the foreign terrorists (Al-Qaeda and alike) who were sent from too many countries and were occupying the East of my city Aleppo for about 5 years so far. So I bet, you have never heard of the bombs of hell (besides the long range missiles lately) that are launched almost daily over the Syrian civilians (about 1 million) who still living in the West of the city as I do. Yes, the real God gave the freedom also to the American rulers to sacrifice/massacre a few thousands of their American civilians on 9/11/2001 to justify their subsequent wars and terror that, since year 2010, started to be launched against millions of civilians outside America. And the kids (in year 2001 then in year 2003 in Iraq, besides the millions in Europe and China, in sleep mode now) who were victims of this international diabolic plan have simply lost their human feelings and, therefore, live in peace (in themselves, as all other living things do).

Anyway, I am afraid that knowing why life had to be created this way leads us to a totally different story Wink

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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08-10-2016, 02:57 AM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(07-10-2016 09:23 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(07-10-2016 02:46 PM)KerimF Wrote:  I am afraid that defining a term as being imaginary, fictional or non-existent supernatural entity (and alike) implies automatically that what it refers to doesn't exist in the first place.
Which is an entirely justifiable position to hold given that this species as a whole has had 6000+ years to provide a single scrap of evidence for any god or gods and the claimants to his existence have, in their entirety failed to do so and this includes you.
For fuck sake I've yet to meet one of you that can offer up a testable and demonstrable mechanism for differentiating between a "god" and something that is entirely imaginary. When gods are indistinguishable from that which is imaginary then defining them as imaginary is perfectly reasonable.

I hear from you that the god you heard of (via certain references) doesn't exist in your reality.
But you also suppose that I should know how this imaginary god you heard of looks like.

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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08-10-2016, 03:01 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2016 03:28 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(08-10-2016 02:57 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(07-10-2016 09:23 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Which is an entirely justifiable position to hold given that this species as a whole has had 6000+ years to provide a single scrap of evidence for any god or gods and the claimants to his existence have, in their entirety failed to do so and this includes you.
For fuck sake I've yet to meet one of you that can offer up a testable and demonstrable mechanism for differentiating between a "god" and something that is entirely imaginary. When gods are indistinguishable from that which is imaginary then defining them as imaginary is perfectly reasonable.

I hear from you that the god you heard of (via certain references) doesn't exist in your reality.
But you also suppose that I should know how this imaginary god you heard of looks like.

Dude, just define a god in a way that can be falsifiable, then test it. So far everyone has either tested it and failed, or just hasn't supplied a testable definition, and therefore are using a meaningless definition. After such a long time of looking for a god, and never finding it in the places that we expected to find one, eventually you have to come square with the realization that maybe the reason we cannot find X is because there is no X to be found. Given enough times, effort, and energy spent in the search, the complete inability to find what you are looking for is evidence; so indeed the absence of evidence can be evidence of absence. Given the complete and utter failure throughout time for any human to justify the existence of any such being, skepticism and disbelief are the only intellectually honest and rational positions to hold.

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08-10-2016, 03:08 AM
RE: What does the word ‘god’ refer to?
(08-10-2016 01:49 AM)KerimF Wrote:  
(07-10-2016 06:26 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Why you no use smiley faces anymore, Kerim?

I guess, there will be always a certain sort of confusion for what I may do or I don't Tongue
But this happens among friends who care of each other Thumbsup

What?
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