What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
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30-10-2012, 11:26 PM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2012 11:30 PM by Phaedrus.)
What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
Don't worry, you know me, I'm a die-hard atheist. But I got to thinking: what evidence would it take to convince me of the existence of a personal god? I ruminated on this for about ten minutes.

If god appeared to me, and me alone, and performed no enduring or testable miracles, I would not consider that compelling evidence, and after the experience would likely seek a psychiatrist. It's too easy for the mind to be fooled or to conjure hallucinations.

If god appeared to me and several other skeptics of sound mind in an environment where a hoax or mass hallucination seemed unlikely and performed substantial miracles, that would be more compelling, but I would still be very skeptical until his supernatural powers could be tested.

I finally got it though. I know what would convince me to drop my heathenous ways and become a god-fearing, bible-thumping Christian.



If god/Jesus appeared to me in the flesh in front of a dozen other skeptics and performed a substantial, enduring, and testable miracle for each of us that would be compelling. A substantial, enduring, and testable miracle for me would be if god were to cure my poor eyesight and give me 20/20 vision. I currently cannot read my computer screen or a book from 18 inches away with my glasses off. If god cured my nearsightedness that would be a substantial miracle which would presumably endure beyond the encounter, and which could be easily tested by going to the nearest optometrist and taking the wall chart test. Jesus cured the blind all the time, and I'm only half-blind, so this shouldn't be too hard for him.




SO I BESEECH THEE O MIGHTY LORD, CURE MY EYESIGHT SO THAT I MAY SEE NATURALLY WITHOUT THE AID OF GLASSES OR CONTACTS, SO THAT MY VISION BE SUBSTANTIALLY AND PERMANENTLY IMPROVED. DO THIS FOR ME AND I WILL DEVOTE MY LIFE TO YOUR WORSHIP AND YOUR GOSPEL AND I WILL LIVE A GOOD AND CHRISTIAN LIFE ACCORDING TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS AND THE BIBLE. THIS I SWEAR. AMEN.


I figure that's about as sincere as I can be. If I wake up tomorrow with 20/20 vision (or even a close facsimile thereof) I'll become a Christian. Bowing If not, well... Coffeedrinker

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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30-10-2012, 11:31 PM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2012 04:18 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
(30-10-2012 11:26 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Don't worry, you know me, I'm a die-hard atheist. But I got to thinking: what evidence would it take to convince me of the existence of a personal god? I ruminated on this for about ten minutes.

If god appeared to me, and me alone, and performed no enduring or testable miracles, I would not consider that compelling evidence, and after the experience would likely seek a psychiatrist. It's too easy for the mind to be fooled or to conjure hallucinations.

If god appeared to me and several other skeptics of sound mind in an environment where a hoax or mass hallucination seemed unlikely and performed substantial miracles, that would be more compelling, but I would still be very skeptical until his supernatural powers could be tested.

I finally got it though. I know what would convince me to drop my heathenous ways and become a god-fearing, bible-thumping Christian.



If god/Jesus appeared to me in the flesh in front of a dozen other skeptics and performed a substantial, enduring, and testable miracle for each of us that would be compelling. A substantial, enduring, and testable miracle for me would be if god were to cure my poor eyesight and give me 20/20 vision. I currently cannot read my computer screen or a book from 18 inches away with my glasses off. If god cured my nearsightedness that would be a substantial miracle which would presumably endure beyond the encounter, and which could be easily tested by going to the nearest optometrist and taking the wall chart test. Jesus cured the blind all the time, and I'm only half-blind, so this shouldn't be too hard for him.




SO I BESEECH THEE O MIGHTY LORD, CURE MY EYESIGHT SO THAT I MAY SEE NATURALLY WITHOUT THE AID OF GLASSES OR CONTACTS, SO THAT MY VISION BE SUBSTANTIALLY AND PERMANENTLY IMPROVED. DO THIS FOR ME AND I WILL DEVOTE MY LIFE TO YOUR WORSHIP AND YOUR GOSPEL AND I WILL LIVE A GOOD AND CHRISTIAN LIFE ACCORDING TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS AND THE BIBLE. THIS I SWEAR. AMEN.


I figure that's about as sincere as I can be. If I wake up tomorrow with 20/20 vision (or even a close facsimile thereof) I'll become a Christian. Bowing If not, well... Coffeedrinker

So, if I become an ophthalmologist and do just that, you will worship me ? Coffeedrinker

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30-10-2012, 11:41 PM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
Then it would not be a magical, miraculous, divine cure, now would it? Wink It'd be a cure derived from modern medical science, which would strengthen my belief in the scientific method and my trust in the scientific community. Although knowing our healthcare system it would probably empty my wallet as well.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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30-10-2012, 11:47 PM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
Observable, testable, REtestable and consistent evidence.

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30-10-2012, 11:59 PM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
What MisanThropik said *ninjas back out of TTA*

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31-10-2012, 12:00 AM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
(30-10-2012 11:59 PM)pppgggr Wrote:  What MisanThropik said *ninjas back out of TTA*

Glad you stuck around.
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31-10-2012, 12:29 AM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
Hmm...being Igtheist this would all go back to asking the question "What is God?". If, for the sake of argument, I had poor eyesight, and had the same experience as you, I would still question whether or not I was not hallucinating, to include hallucinating the skeptics which you mentioned. I suppose after enough time had passed I would then consider the experience to be reality (though in the back of my mind, I would still have doubts), but after a certain length of time, I would have to either accept it or question that every experience I have ever had was nothing more than a mere illusion. Since I could never prove that everything I have experienced thus far isn't an illusion I would just presume that my senses are giving me data about reality (otherwise you'd really drive yourself nuts). However, even if I accepted the experience was probably genuine I would then assume that the being performing the miracles is probably nothing more than a sufficiently advanced being, which may or may not be considered a god. Either way, if it was sufficiently powerful enough to demonstrate it's powers of creation I suppose I would certainly be in awe. If this is a what it means to be a god, to be so powerful as to leave me awe-struck I suppose that it what it would take. For me to entertain the possibility of this being as being the Christian God, it would need to show me something which is beyond logic since the Christian God must necessarily work outside of logic in order to exist. The question is would I be able to comprehend something that is beyond logic? Probably not, so it have to "make" me understand by using its power. This was a very interesting thought experiment Phaedrus, bravo. In any case I do not see myself submitting to a god of any definition in the limited time I have.

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31-10-2012, 01:17 AM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
(30-10-2012 11:26 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Don't worry, you know me, I'm a die-hard atheist. But I got to thinking: what evidence would it take to convince me of the existence of a personal god? I ruminated on this for about ten minutes.

If god appeared to me, and me alone, and performed no enduring or testable miracles, I would not consider that compelling evidence, and after the experience would likely seek a psychiatrist. It's too easy for the mind to be fooled or to conjure hallucinations.

If god appeared to me and several other skeptics of sound mind in an environment where a hoax or mass hallucination seemed unlikely and performed substantial miracles, that would be more compelling, but I would still be very skeptical until his supernatural powers could be tested.

I finally got it though. I know what would convince me to drop my heathenous ways and become a god-fearing, bible-thumping Christian.



If god/Jesus appeared to me in the flesh in front of a dozen other skeptics and performed a substantial, enduring, and testable miracle for each of us that would be compelling. A substantial, enduring, and testable miracle for me would be if god were to cure my poor eyesight and give me 20/20 vision. I currently cannot read my computer screen or a book from 18 inches away with my glasses off. If god cured my nearsightedness that would be a substantial miracle which would presumably endure beyond the encounter, and which could be easily tested by going to the nearest optometrist and taking the wall chart test. Jesus cured the blind all the time, and I'm only half-blind, so this shouldn't be too hard for him.




SO I BESEECH THEE O MIGHTY LORD, CURE MY EYESIGHT SO THAT I MAY SEE NATURALLY WITHOUT THE AID OF GLASSES OR CONTACTS, SO THAT MY VISION BE SUBSTANTIALLY AND PERMANENTLY IMPROVED. DO THIS FOR ME AND I WILL DEVOTE MY LIFE TO YOUR WORSHIP AND YOUR GOSPEL AND I WILL LIVE A GOOD AND CHRISTIAN LIFE ACCORDING TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS AND THE BIBLE. THIS I SWEAR. AMEN.


I figure that's about as sincere as I can be. If I wake up tomorrow with 20/20 vision (or even a close facsimile thereof) I'll become a Christian. Bowing If not, well... Coffeedrinker



Cool, I'm hopping on this train. I want 20/20. It's the sense I fear will leave the most, since my current career path requires them. If the two of us simply wake with 20/20 then I'll convert back. I also want my astigma gone, too. My eyeballs have to be perfect. Smile

My eyes are sooo bad, my doctor said he doubts I can get laser surgery, so this would deff be a miracle.
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31-10-2012, 01:29 AM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
(30-10-2012 11:26 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Don't worry, you know me, I'm a die-hard atheist. But I got to thinking: what evidence would it take to convince me of the existence of a personal god? I ruminated on this for about ten minutes.

If god appeared to me, and me alone, and performed no enduring or testable miracles, I would not consider that compelling evidence, and after the experience would likely seek a psychiatrist. It's too easy for the mind to be fooled or to conjure hallucinations.

If god appeared to me and several other skeptics of sound mind in an environment where a hoax or mass hallucination seemed unlikely and performed substantial miracles, that would be more compelling, but I would still be very skeptical until his supernatural powers could be tested.

I finally got it though. I know what would convince me to drop my heathenous ways and become a god-fearing, bible-thumping Christian.



If god/Jesus appeared to me in the flesh in front of a dozen other skeptics and performed a substantial, enduring, and testable miracle for each of us that would be compelling. A substantial, enduring, and testable miracle for me would be if god were to cure my poor eyesight and give me 20/20 vision. I currently cannot read my computer screen or a book from 18 inches away with my glasses off. If god cured my nearsightedness that would be a substantial miracle which would presumably endure beyond the encounter, and which could be easily tested by going to the nearest optometrist and taking the wall chart test. Jesus cured the blind all the time, and I'm only half-blind, so this shouldn't be too hard for him.




SO I BESEECH THEE O MIGHTY LORD, CURE MY EYESIGHT SO THAT I MAY SEE NATURALLY WITHOUT THE AID OF GLASSES OR CONTACTS, SO THAT MY VISION BE SUBSTANTIALLY AND PERMANENTLY IMPROVED. DO THIS FOR ME AND I WILL DEVOTE MY LIFE TO YOUR WORSHIP AND YOUR GOSPEL AND I WILL LIVE A GOOD AND CHRISTIAN LIFE ACCORDING TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS AND THE BIBLE. THIS I SWEAR. AMEN.


I figure that's about as sincere as I can be. If I wake up tomorrow with 20/20 vision (or even a close facsimile thereof) I'll become a Christian. Bowing If not, well... Coffeedrinker

Any theists looking for an easy conversion, grab your portable laser eye surgery equipment, and head to the address I'll be PMing you. ABOVE ALL, remember that this atheist can't know you were there, so lead with the tranq darts.

.... for certain values of "easy". Dodgy

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31-10-2012, 02:16 AM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
(30-10-2012 11:26 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  SO I BESEECH THEE O MIGHTY LORD, CURE MY EYESIGHT SO THAT I MAY SEE NATURALLY WITHOUT THE AID OF GLASSES OR CONTACTS, SO THAT MY VISION BE SUBSTANTIALLY AND PERMANENTLY IMPROVED. DO THIS FOR ME AND I WILL DEVOTE MY LIFE TO YOUR WORSHIP AND YOUR GOSPEL AND I WILL LIVE A GOOD AND CHRISTIAN LIFE ACCORDING TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS AND THE BIBLE. THIS I SWEAR. AMEN.


I figure that's about as sincere as I can be. If I wake up tomorrow with 20/20 vision (or even a close facsimile thereof) I'll become a Christian. Bowing If not, well... Coffeedrinker

You know what? I would love to jump on this bandwagon.

I want my "degenerative myopia" to be gone. Oh how I have asked and pleaded, but I am not placing my bets on it being magic'd away while I sleep.

While I don't want to I figure I've just to to take this one up the arse and accept that I can do nothing to stop it (at the time being at least).

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