What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
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24-12-2012, 01:09 AM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
I've long pondered what would constitute as evidence for God. To answer that we'd have to determine what exactly God is. Is God responsible for designing/making the universe/multiverse? That's the standard belief. If evidence for God exists, it'd likely be discovered by physics. Not to discourage philosophy, of course, I think philosophy and science are more interchangeable than science and faith. But when it comes to evidence and the workings of the universe, physicists have the floor.

Even if it's a work of fiction, I always thought Carl Sagan's Contact offered an intriguing take on "God". In the book, Eleanor Arroway, a brilliant scientist and a religious skeptic, discovered a universal signature in Pi. Now if something similar was discovered, I'd be more willing to believe. Now that doesn't prove God currently exists, but it could prove there once was a God.

Now that still wouldn't constitute as evidence. If I were to be convinced that Santa Claus is real, we'd have to not only discover such a being, but such a being would have to fit the description and standards of Santa Claus. So I cannot digress this enough, we'd need to first determine what God is. And if the evidence strongly favors that definition, then it's a start.

I used to think I'd be convinced if I heard a booming voice from the sky or if I received a message from an Angel. That's no longer what I think because it's a very horrendous way to prove your existence. Who's to say I'm not a schizophrenic? It could also be Alzheimer's. To be convinced, I'd have to know beyond reasonable doubt. Here's what would probably make me less skeptical: everyone on the planet shared the same vision of God, all amputees had their lost limbs restored, all diseases were suddenly purged, and if resurrection became a reality for everyone. That would be a good start.

My official stance on God's existence remains the same: I don't know.

If you'll indulge me for a little while longer, let's think about what it would mean if there is scientific evidence. That would mean God wanted us to find it, which would render all of these self-proclaimed holy scriptures and artifacts moot. It would also, ironically, debunk the God many theists believe in. How so? Well, theists like to brag about how the God they worship can't be explained through materialistic means. A scientifically proven God would defeat the whole point of being faithful in the first place. You don't need faith if you have evidence. Furthermore, it would confirm our worst fears: God, the celestial dictator, exists. Now that doesn't mean we shouldn't look for evidence. If it's there, we should do everything we can to uncover it and share it with the rest of civilization, even if it's bad news. Of course, that's assuming it's the Judeo-Christian God, which would suck. I hate the idea of being a slave.

Now if this God happens to be my ideal God, one I'd rather see exist, then that changes the game. Thumbsup

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and a bite from a radioactive spider will give you superpowers,
congratulations! You're on the same playing field as a theist.
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24-12-2012, 01:30 AM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
(23-12-2012 05:51 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  I'm asking you to explain why we should agree with the statement "God is Existence." You gave the implications IF that is the case, but you have failed to provide evidence that supports your argument. You state it is impossible to deny existence and then extrapolate from there to state that God exists because God=existence. What evidence supports that conclusion?

I don't think any of us here deny existence, we just hold existence to be what it is: itself. No reason to attach the god moniker tsio it.

My proposition is that defining existence as God is warranted by the vastness, complexity and incomprehensibility of what is, a perception so eloquently demonstrated by modern science. My case rests upon an empirical observations of Being. What do you make of it? How would you adequately explain the universe? Why not regard existence as God? It seems to me that there is every reason to do so and no good reason to not. But then, perhaps you have some that I have not considered.
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24-12-2012, 02:00 AM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
(24-12-2012 01:30 AM)lmbarre Wrote:  
(23-12-2012 05:51 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  I'm asking you to explain why we should agree with the statement "God is Existence." You gave the implications IF that is the case, but you have failed to provide evidence that supports your argument. You state it is impossible to deny existence and then extrapolate from there to state that God exists because God=existence. What evidence supports that conclusion?

I don't think any of us here deny existence, we just hold existence to be what it is: itself. No reason to attach the god moniker tsio it.

My proposition is that defining existence as God is warranted by the vastness, complexity and incomprehensibility of what is, a perception so eloquently demonstrated by modern science. My case rests upon an empirical observations of Being. What do you make of it? How would you adequately explain the universe? Why not regard existence as God? It seems to me that there is every reason to do so and no good reason to not. But then, perhaps you have some that I have not considered.
Empirical observation of being?


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24-12-2012, 08:33 AM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
Not too long ago I turned on Turner Classic Movies and saw The Next Voice You Hear. A movie from about 1950. In the movie, for six days (on the seventh day he rested) god spoke to mankind through every television and radio on earth, all at the same time and in different languages. The theme of the talks was compassion and benevolence, etc. I think the experts believed that the signal was coming from outside the Earth's atmosphere. By the fifth or sixth day people were pretty much convinced that god was really speaking over all the electronic media of the day. So, would such a scenario work to convince me? I might tend to think so. I am neither proud nor ashamed of being an atheist. With proper evidence, I would be willing to believe the squirrel outside my window is god (that would take one heck of a lot of evidence). Point is, with sufficient evidence I could become a theist. In fact, as odd as it might sound, I think that would be the only logical approach. I am an atheist only because evidence, combined with lack of evidence, suggests there is no god, not because I am averse to the concept of a god.
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24-12-2012, 08:36 AM
What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
(24-12-2012 08:33 AM)Katiegal Wrote:  Not too long ago I turned on Turner Classic Movies and saw The Next Voice You Hear. A movie from about 1950. In the movie, for six days (on the seventh day he rested) god spoke to mankind through every television and radio on earth, all at the same time and in different languages. The theme of the talks was compassion and benevolence, etc. I think the experts believed that the signal was coming from outside the Earth's atmosphere. By the fifth or sixth day people were pretty much convinced that god was really speaking over all the electronic media of the day. So, would such a scenario work to convince me? I might tend to think so. I am neither proud nor ashamed of being an atheist. With proper evidence, I would be willing to believe the squirrel outside my window is god (that would take one heck of a lot of evidence). Point is, with sufficient evidence I could become a theist. In fact, as odd as it might sound, I think that would be the only logical approach. I am an atheist only because evidence, combined with lack of evidence, suggests there is no god, not because I am averse to the concept of a god.

I would first think the broadcast was being made by a hacker with a satellite. I then might think that perhaps an entity from another planet or dimension was contacting us. The last thing I'd think of was a god. A god could and should communicate directly without the limitation of using electronics.

But that's just me. Big Grin

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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24-12-2012, 09:26 AM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
Quote:If god appeared to me and several other skeptics of sound mind in an environment where a hoax or mass hallucination seemed unlikely and performed substantial miracles, that would be more compelling, but I would still be very skeptical until his supernatural powers could be tested.
So which god would it be? Would you believe him? It might be just Devil. God is not the only one with super powers. I'd say that such experience could make agnostics out of atheists, not more Smile
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30-12-2012, 09:18 PM
RE: What evidence would convince you of the existence of god?
It wouldn't take that much to convince me; just an indestructible holy book that automatically translated itself into the language of it's beholder. Child's play for the creator of the universe. Of course, I would still need to be convinced to worship it. Smile

"To hate man and worship God seems to be the sum of all creeds." — Robert Ingersoll
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