What exactly is Christianity
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17-06-2014, 10:54 PM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(17-06-2014 09:34 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 06:52 PM)childeye Wrote:  Wrong. I said the Gospel is about trust. I know what is true. I trust what is true.... I know, word salad.

How do you know they are true? Why do you trust them? Because you really, really, really want to trust them because you really, really, really want them to be true. All you have going for you is desire and ignorance of the facts, so you must forgive the rest of us when we don't find that at all compelling.

Which is no different than any other religious fundamentalist for any other religion and/or sect; which is all faith, zero evidence. We (and yourself) have no more reason to take your 'beliefs' any more seriously than we do the beliefs of Osama Bin Laden, David Koresh, Pat Robertson, Jim Jones, or Saul of Tarsis... Drinking Beverage
Ohhhh boyee. All you really, really have is a bad case of really, really consistent misunderstanding. The term faith is not zero evidence. It is trust. There are things we don't see yet we trust in them. I don't see whether my kids are doing their chores, but I trust they are. Hence I trust in Jesus the same way. The Gospel is about trusting, and Jesus shows a trustworthy Love. Let me show you the opposite of faith so you might understand. Here are some cynical people with no faith. John the Baptist came neither eating or drinking and they called him insane. The son of man came both eating and drinking and they called him a drunkard and a glutton.
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17-06-2014, 10:56 PM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2014 12:14 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(17-06-2014 10:37 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 08:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  It most certainly is. And not only is it the height of naïveté, it is the height of arrogance as well.
Hope is not arrogance either.

It's not just a 'better life', which is an entirely unsubstantiated assumption; it's all of the bullshit that goes with it. Belief in a god that only reveals his plan to True Christians™, of which you just happen to be one, allowing only a select few into the VIP area of eternity? With the converse being Satan, and presumably the eternal tortures of Hell that are part and parcel of Christian mythology. How is that anything but the height of arrogance?

Wait, I'm trying to reason with a fundy. Never mind, carry on with your unfounded bullshit...

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17-06-2014, 11:06 PM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2014 11:29 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(17-06-2014 10:54 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 09:34 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  How do you know they are true? Why do you trust them? Because you really, really, really want to trust them because you really, really, really want them to be true. All you have going for you is desire and ignorance of the facts, so you must forgive the rest of us when we don't find that at all compelling.

Which is no different than any other religious fundamentalist for any other religion and/or sect; which is all faith, zero evidence. We (and yourself) have no more reason to take your 'beliefs' any more seriously than we do the beliefs of Osama Bin Laden, David Koresh, Pat Robertson, Jim Jones, or Saul of Tarsis... Drinking Beverage
Ohhhh boyee. All you really, really have is a bad case of really, really consistent misunderstanding. The term faith is not zero evidence. It is trust. There are things we don't see yet we trust in them. I don't see whether my kids are doing their chores, but I trust they are. Hence I trust in Jesus the same way. The Gospel is about trusting, and Jesus shows a trustworthy Love. Let me show you the opposite of faith so you might understand. Here are some cynical people with no faith. John the Baptist came neither eating or drinking and they called him insane. The son of man came both eating and drinking and they called him a drunkard and a glutton.

Nice try at false equivocation there dumbass.

You trust your kids are doing their chores, because presumably you've seen them do them before, showed them how to do them yourself, and they have a consistent track record of getting them done. That is trust built upon evidence, which is not how you are using it in regards to your religious beliefs (for which you have no evidence).

That is not the same as trusting in Jesus, and we both know it. Jesus is not your kid, you haven't seen him personally (and if you have, get medication right now), you haven't interacted with him personally. Hell, not even the people who made up the Gospels decades after the supposed events had met Jesus personally. They're not even remotely close to being the same thing.

The reason you trust the Gospels is because you're too damn ignorant about their origins to have any doubt. That's it, you are just ignorant of the relevant facts of actual history as supported by evidence. Your fairy-tale belief in the Gospels is built upon your desires and willful ignorance. Biblical scholarship has known about their anonymous authorship, vast editorial changes (often for tangible political gains) and translation/copying discrepancies for centuries; that you live in the information age and still cling to such ignorance is a willful choice on your part, forsaking knowledge in favor of comfort.

You believe without evidence, that is the definition of 'taking things on faith'. You can try to dress it up with whatever flowery bullshit you want to try and hide that fact, but at the end of the day you not only believe without evidence, you choose to believe in spite of evidence against you. You are both ignorant and gullible, in the most literal sense of both words.

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17-06-2014, 11:12 PM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(17-06-2014 10:54 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 09:34 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  How do you know they are true? Why do you trust them? Because you really, really, really want to trust them because you really, really, really want them to be true. All you have going for you is desire and ignorance of the facts, so you must forgive the rest of us when we don't find that at all compelling.

Which is no different than any other religious fundamentalist for any other religion and/or sect; which is all faith, zero evidence. We (and yourself) have no more reason to take your 'beliefs' any more seriously than we do the beliefs of Osama Bin Laden, David Koresh, Pat Robertson, Jim Jones, or Saul of Tarsis... Drinking Beverage
Ohhhh boyee. All you really, really have is a bad case of really, really consistent misunderstanding.

YOU are the one who doesn't understand.



Quote: The term faith is not zero evidence. It is trust. There are things we don't see yet we trust in them.

That's zero evidence.



Quote:[ I don't see whether my kids are doing their chores, but I trust they are.
You HAVE SEEN them do their chores. You HAVEN'T SEEN your fairy tale gawd.


Quote: Hence I trust in Jesus the same way.


You HEVEN'T SEEN this supposed person.


Quote:The Gospel is about trusting,

Your fairy stories deserve just as much "trust" as Grimm's Fairy Tales.


Quote:...and Jesus shows a trustworthy Love.

You talking about that mythical person who is supposed to be your fairy tale monster incarnate? The one who your stories say destroyed almost all life on the fucking planet in a rage?



Quote: Let me show you the opposite of faith so you might understand. Here are some cynical people with no faith. John the Baptist came neither eating or drinking and they called him insane. The son of man came both eating and drinking and they called him a drunkard and a glutton.

And you can't even make sense. Facepalm

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17-06-2014, 11:42 PM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(17-06-2014 10:31 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 08:28 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Not in so many words, no. But essentially you have.
I said my dog has empathy, soul means to breathe, and out of nowhere you claim I've said my dog is immortal.

Okay, I did put words in your mouth here, I apologize. Given the trivial nature of this topic, I suppose we should just let sleeping dogs lay. Consider

(17-06-2014 10:31 PM)childeye Wrote:  Oh please, stop. Your reasoning simply concludes that if I disagree, I think I know more, therefore I am arrogant. I don't dismiss what you think out of hand. I listen, I consider, and I point out the discrepancies in an attempt at honest discourse.

I'm not trying to imply that your intent is arrogant, it's the sweeping manner in which you conveniently dismiss all contrary argument so easily that comes across as arrogant. It is an arrogant position to hold even if you've convinced yourself it is humble and self sacrificial.

You base your faith on what you feel, and disregard my reasoned approach to such faith as wrong or misguided because I don't feel it like you do. Again, we're going with the tickled taint theory. I grew up as a preacher's kid, fully immersed in the faith. I've had my taint tickled pink by the spirit more than once in my lifetime. I've also studied the matter from more than one point of view and have had the realization of perspective that has given me a better point of view of the truth of the matter.

(17-06-2014 10:31 PM)childeye Wrote:  Love is a natural phenomenon which is all the more reason it comes from the maker whatever or whoever that would be. It is not like pooping or peeing which is also natural. The whole point of vanity is that people take God's attributes as their own which leaves them unthankful. There is a spiritual difference between the man who is thankful for his Love and those who take it for granted. They tend to make false images of god and worship themselves.

Actually for me love is as natural as pooping or peeing. It happens, whether I want it to or not (funnily enough, it happens accordingly for all three depending on how much I've had to drink).

The whole point of vanity is that people attribute their own insecurities into their concept of god, which is exactly what we see when we study god in the bible.

(17-06-2014 10:31 PM)childeye Wrote:  That isn't my fault. There are semantics that exist in language. Ten people can hear or read something and get ten different connotations. The books are translated by someone. How exact are the translations to the original sentiments?

I don't care. There are words. Words mean things. We can go back to the original words, they are still obviously written by man in order to instruct other men as to what sort of obedience they required. None of those words are compelling as to the existence of love. The entire story of christ as god's sacrifice for mankind is not philisophically or theologically compelling as any sort of explanation for our existence.

I'm sorry, but you're just going to have to do better than that.

(17-06-2014 10:31 PM)childeye Wrote:  Know this. If God created the universe, He knows how to put forth scriptures that resist the understanding of the proud, and that is what the Gospel does. The Holy Spirit testifies about God.

Six to one, half a dozen to another, brother.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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22-06-2014, 10:31 AM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2014 12:23 PM by smileXsmileXsmile.)
RE: What exactly is Christianity
Ahh shit, I was trying to keep this short, my bad in advance.

Child eye seems to be somewhat open minded, as he or she is putting up with us, so lets see if I can get him or her to understand where we're coming from. I find it's good to start with the definition of the word believe. Believe means to accept as truth, at least that's what Google says. You will see the biggest disagreement I have with child eye is when he or she says everything was passed to him or her by word of mouth.

Child eye you said...It is not naïveté to hope there is a better life than what we experience here.

Cool I agree, I HOPE there is. I think it would be nice if there was a God or a better life than what we experience here. It sure sounds intoxicating! Count me in and God is quite an elegant explanation to the unanswerable questions. However, just because it's an elegant explanation and intoxicating, is not enough of a reason for me to accept this as truth. If someone came up to me and said their cat was God in a past life and we should worship him. That's not going to cut it for me to accept this as truth. I'm going to need to a little reassurance, some solid evidence. I don't just believe Joe Shmo on the street, I have to be able to find credible sources that have studied this and have some solid results, or test it somehow.

Let's go with a different scenario. Lets say your brain has been washed, you know nothing except for how to speak the english language. Two people come and knock on your door. One is preaching the flying spaghetti monster and one is preaching God father of Jesus. Essentially, they are the same argument right? So how do you choose, or do you choose at all and why? Remember, your brain has been washed and just because something is elegant does not make it true. Both preachers have no solid evidence, trust me if there was evidence, us atheists would be MORE then happy to jump on board the Christian train or the flying spaghetti monster train. All of us desperately want to know the truth, but it's smart to be skeptical and question what we have been taught to believe. Therefore, I believe the most rational choice is to choose neither, because the fact of the matter is, it may or may not be true, we just don't know.

Also by the way, the existince of love doesn't prove God exists, it proves love exists. They're mutually exclusive.

Like I said the biggest thing I couldn't wrap my head around was when you said everything you know was passed down to you by word of mouth. So if all you have is he said/she said information, it's logical to think that a rational person wouldn't believe, accept it as truth, that this information is factual. I think it's fair to say that a rational person would have to successfully test the information in order to accept it as truth, or believe it.

I'm not trying to step on your toes or be arrogant because I feel there's no need for that. You seem to be a rational person, as am I. Both of us are trying to figure out the most rational thinking. I'm open minded to changing my belief in light of a new perspective, as I imagine you are. What's your thoughts on what I said?

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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25-06-2014, 02:24 PM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
No thoughts Child eye?

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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03-07-2014, 03:28 PM
What exactly is Christianity
Lame.

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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