What exactly is Christianity
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17-06-2014, 11:00 AM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(17-06-2014 06:24 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 04:41 PM)CyberLN Wrote:  The pig, like a number of other 'forbidden' critters, has cloven hooves. That's why it's forbidden. The devil has cloven hooves and that's why eating cloven hooved critters is forbidden.

I doubt that's the reason why. Back when those rules were written, they had no concept of Satan. The first mentioning you see of Satan in the old testament is in Job. There, he was referred to as the satan (meaning the adversary or the accuser), and it was his job to try and get Job to falter. It's quite a while into the Old Testament before the article is dropped, giving him the name "Satan". As the New Testament progressed, this is when Satan was dubbed "the Deceiver" and was given phenomenal cosmic powers to try and tempt us.

That being said, I'm not sure that there is any Biblical mentioning of Satan having cloven hooves, at least not written during the same period where people were saying "don't eat pigs" (anyone who knows otherwise, correct me if I'm wrong). Most of what people think of when they actually envision Satan comes from Bible fan-fiction, such as Dante's Inferno (crazy beast) or Milton's Paradise Lost (beautiful angel). Actual descriptions in the Bible of his appearance are very few and very vague.








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17-06-2014, 11:03 AM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(16-06-2014 03:25 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 02:51 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  I don't understand the distinction. If it was preached before it was written, and it was true when it was preached, it would still be true once someone wrote it done.

I will ask again, how do you know the gospels are true?
The distinction was made several posts ago when I said that the scriptures are not necessary to be a Christian. The reason that is important for me to establish is to eliminate the false premise that Christians simply believe what they read.

You ask how I know the Gospel is true. The Gospel is like a question posed as a statement. Fundamentally it is asking me if I believe that God is of a character that would sacrifice Himself for others or sacrifice others for Himself. It is not about whether it is provable. It is about trust and distrust.

No offense, but you really do make less sense with every new post you write.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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17-06-2014, 11:07 AM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(17-06-2014 11:03 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 03:25 PM)childeye Wrote:  The distinction was made several posts ago when I said that the scriptures are not necessary to be a Christian. The reason that is important for me to establish is to eliminate the false premise that Christians simply believe what they read.

You ask how I know the Gospel is true. The Gospel is like a question posed as a statement. Fundamentally it is asking me if I believe that God is of a character that would sacrifice Himself for others or sacrifice others for Himself. It is not about whether it is provable. It is about trust and distrust.

No offense, but you really do make less sense with every new post you write.

Translation: He doesn't know they are true, but he really, really, really wants it to be true. And maybe (just maybe) if he believes it hard enough, it will be true. Becuase... reasons... and Jesus...

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17-06-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(17-06-2014 11:07 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 11:03 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  No offense, but you really do make less sense with every new post you write.

Translation: He doesn't know they are true, but he really, really, really wants it to be true. And maybe (just maybe) if he believes it hard enough, it will be true. Becuase... reasons... and Jesus...

Word salad: if they can't understand you, they can't prove you wrong!

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17-06-2014, 11:48 AM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(15-06-2014 07:21 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  ... is there any evidence outside the Bible that the founders of Christianity were killed?

It's worse than that -- for the most part, there's no evidence in the Bible either. It is hinted toward the end of one of the Gospels that Peter will come to a bad end, but this doesn't actually happen in the Bible. Paul is left in prison at the end of Acts, but still alive. All of the Apostles (except John) were supposedly martyred for their faith (and Christian apologists will use this as evidence that the faith must be "true"), but this is by "tradition" only. It's not in the Bible.
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17-06-2014, 05:39 PM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
Christianity: The delusional belief that a cosmic Jewish miracle performing Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree….makes perfect sense.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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17-06-2014, 06:52 PM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(17-06-2014 11:07 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 11:03 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  No offense, but you really do make less sense with every new post you write.

Translation: He doesn't know they are true, but he really, really, really wants it to be true. And maybe (just maybe) if he believes it hard enough, it will be true. Becuase... reasons... and Jesus...
Wrong. I said the Gospel is about trust. I know what is true. I trust what is true.... I know, word salad.
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17-06-2014, 07:02 PM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(17-06-2014 06:52 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(17-06-2014 11:07 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Translation: He doesn't know they are true, but he really, really, really wants it to be true. And maybe (just maybe) if he believes it hard enough, it will be true. Becuase... reasons... and Jesus...
Wrong. I said the Gospel is about trust. I know what is true. I trust what is true.... I know, word salad.

trust based on the gospels? and who wrote the gospels.....

Acts and luke had the same authors. NO, none of the authors of the gospels knew jesus.

Writings of the Gospels: Mark (60 to 75 CE), Matthew (80 to 90 CE), Luke (80 to 90 CE based on the Gospels of Mark), and John (80 to 110 CE) (Albl 283). I have shown before in various venues the issues with the Gospels, the fact that we don’t know who wrote the gospels, the community effort that put them together, and the fact that they don’t agree with one another, all of which make them a suspect source of empirical evidence. When one posits a super natural, extraordinary story, one requires extraordinary evidence....sadly it doesn't exist, except philosophically.

The Gospel of Matthew is generally believed to have been composed between 70 and 110, with most scholars preferring the period 80–90; a pre-70 date remains a minority view, but has been strongly supported. The anonymous author was probably a highly educated Jew, intimately familiar with the technical aspects of Jewish law, and the disciple Matthew was probably honored within his circle. The author drew on three main sources to compose his gospel: the Gospel of Mark; the hypothetical collection of sayings known as the Q source; and material unique to his own community, called "Special Matthew", or the M source. Note the part where I said...disciple matthew honored...and anonymous writer...do some research. Knowledge is power, and quite liberating.

The gospel of Mark; Most modern scholars reject the tradition which ascribes it to Mark the Evangelist, the companion of Peter, and regard it as the work of an unknown author working with various sources including collections of miracle stories, controversy stories, parables, and a passion narrative.

Luke: Tradition holds that the text was written by Luke the companion of Paul (named in Colossians 4:14). Many modern scholars reject this view, although the list of scholars maintaining authorship by Luke the physician is lengthy, and represents scholars from a wide range of theological opinion. According to Raymond E. Brown, opinion concerning Lukan authorship was ‘about evenly divided’ as of 1997.

John: The gospel identifies its author as "the disciple whom Jesus loved." Although the text does not name this disciple, by the beginning of the 2nd century, a tradition had begun to form which identified him with John the Apostle, one of the Twelve (Jesus' innermost circle). Although some notable New Testament scholars affirm traditional Johannine scholarship, the majority do not believe that John or one of the Apostles wrote it, and trace it instead to a "Johannine community" which traced its traditions to John.

Now this all sounds so familiar, ah, thats right, I made these points before.

Paul also NEVER met jesus. So once again, as I have asserted previously, all writers of jesus, never met him, and wrote these stories based on the oral retelling, of the oral retelling of heresay. Fact. I have a degree in theology for a reason....to be able to dismantle the myth.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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17-06-2014, 07:50 PM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(16-06-2014 03:25 PM)childeye Wrote:  The Gospel is like a question posed as a statement.

You mean it's rhetorical then.

#sigh
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17-06-2014, 08:04 PM
RE: What exactly is Christianity
(17-06-2014 07:50 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-06-2014 03:25 PM)childeye Wrote:  The Gospel is like a question posed as a statement.

You mean it's rhetorical then.
No, I mean how you respond to the Gospel says more about you than it does about Jesus.
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