What happened to frankjs?
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03-06-2014, 04:44 AM
RE: What happened to frankjs?
tl;dr

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03-06-2014, 04:45 AM
RE: What happened to frankjs?
(01-06-2014 08:14 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Except Einstein demonstrated there is no absolute spacetime. It's called Relativity.
There goes that.
So he proved that spacetime is not a principle, it's derived from some other principles. I said "spacetime" because I didn't want to go into detail, but it's described in my about 25-page long document Shared Properties of Reality, which isn't in English yet. And I'm too lazy to translate it. If I'm too lazy to talk about it, that depends on people's interest in the topics.
Short version: Dark energy expands space. Is space a form of energy? Not my words, their words, scientists. I avoid the problem of infinite regression. I promise.

(01-06-2014 07:20 AM)DLJ Wrote:  For future reference, the first paragraph of your reply would have been enough to clear up my misunderstanding.
And I thank you for it.

The rest? Kantish stuff about Universals... there ain't none.

I'm OK with the understanding of is from physical laws (or at least our current observations of them and derivations from them) but that ain't gonna turn into an objective ought any day soon.

@djk, also, thanks for clarifying. I like the way you said "drive for objectivism"... yup objectivism should be our collective objective. Big Grin
Like utopia, I know it does not exist, but that should not stop us looking for it.

Cool
I want to prove to you that universals are real and inevitable. But that's for starting another thread. If I prove that to you, what will you do? Will you join me in my "fundamentalist crusade" for the necessary universal values? Don't worry, they're pretty general, which means they don't order people around agains their will and that there is a great freedom in implementing them in practice.
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03-06-2014, 09:01 AM
RE: What happened to frankjs?
(03-06-2014 04:38 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 08:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  I mostly say fuck those labels. All of them.

I am a pragmatic humanist.
If it hurts people, let's try not to do it.
If it infringes on personal freedom, let's try not to do it.
If someone's a dick, let's try to do something about it.

If your ideology interferes with any of the above, you're a dick.
I doubt that pragmatism is philosophical. It says, "fuck philosophy, reality and purpose, method macht frei". Well, how do you choose the purpose, if only method is real? With such approach, science is just an instrument of market or government. Nothing wrong with that - but then don't call yourself a humanist.
You're more of an institutionalist, you're in for the machine, not the people, man. Smokin

Thank you for your great insight, frankie jr. Dodgy
You are doing the same things that made him despised. Good luck with that.

Now, fuck off.

Quote:It seems you use the argument from consequences, that is, utilitarianism.
How do we know what hurts people in advance? A surgery seems to do an awful lot of damage at first, yet it's actually helping. And yet it sometimes fails and hurts the patient. We choose surgery based on a principle, that scientific actions are better than non-scientific regardless of consequences.

Again, please stop telling me what I believe.

Now, fuck off.

Quote:Parents attacking children (KC) say they're doing it "for your own good". Anyone can come up with an argument that "do what I say, it may seem unpleasant, but some time in the future it will have better consequences." Or they say, "this is good, because it has good consequences for many people." (slavery seemed profitable) We need to know how to act now, regardless how things or promises turn out. It is universally preferable to act upon a reasonable principle, because that's the only thing we actually have before we act. Facts don't have a higher meaning besides themselves, they don't act, don't think, we do. And we only need facts to such an extent to verify that we know a principle that generated them.

What is personal freedom? What about the freedom to keep all the money I earn and give them out only to those who I choose because they ask me nicely? That would mean you'd join me against the government and taxation.

What is this something we do about people who are dicks? If they're truly dicks, they can't be reasoned with them and you shouldn't expect otherwise. How can you actively oppose them, unless you forcefully restrict their personal freedom? Ask the government to lock them up?

Seriously, you are channeling frankksj. Just stop it - you are being an asshole.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-06-2014, 09:40 AM
RE: What happened to frankjs?
(03-06-2014 09:01 AM)Chas Wrote:  Seriously, you are channeling frankksj. Just stop it - you are being an asshole.

As a curtesy to the willfully impaired, I will now translate this:
GET THE FUCK OFF MY LAWN!

Carry on. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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03-06-2014, 09:47 AM
RE: What happened to frankjs?
(03-06-2014 09:40 AM)kim Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 09:01 AM)Chas Wrote:  Seriously, you are channeling frankksj. Just stop it - you are being an asshole.

As a curtesy to the willfully impaired, I will now translate this:
GET THE FUCK OFF MY LAWN!

Carry on. Drinking Beverage

And for the reading impaired....

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03-06-2014, 10:06 AM
RE: What happened to frankjs?
(03-06-2014 04:45 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 07:20 AM)DLJ Wrote:  The rest? Kantish stuff about Universals... there ain't none.

I'm OK with the understanding of is from physical laws (or at least our current observations of them and derivations from them) but that ain't gonna turn into an objective ought any day soon.

@djk, also, thanks for clarifying. I like the way you said "drive for objectivism"... yup objectivism should be our collective objective. Big Grin
Like utopia, I know it does not exist, but that should not stop us looking for it.

Cool
I want to prove to you that universals are real and inevitable. But that's for starting another thread. If I prove that to you, what will you do? Will you join me in my "fundamentalist crusade" for the necessary universal values? Don't worry, they're pretty general, which means they don't order people around agains their will and that there is a great freedom in implementing them in practice.

I joined that quest (not crusade) when I was born. It is what drives my very being... more important than anything material; more important than knowing where my next BJ is coming from ...
Consider
... OK, it's the second most important driver.

I just don't believe anyone has found any yet.

If you want to start a new thread about it, fill yer boots but no text walls please... as it's universally true that tl;dr will be the response.

Tongue

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03-06-2014, 05:57 PM
RE: What happened to frankjs?
(02-06-2014 08:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 07:21 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  I haven't gotten to the lies yet. I think frankjs is more of an anarchist than a libertarian.

And yes libertarians have a good handle on economics and the free market. Rothbardians like Frankie and luminon though aren't really traditional economists because they reject empiricism among other things. It's easier to do economics without data and just sticking to praxeology.

I'm considering the libertarian label to be just muddled up by the Austrian school. I think the label of Jeffersonian or classical liberal might be more apt for me.

I mostly say fuck those labels. All of them.

I am a pragmatic humanist.
If it hurts people, let's try not to do it.
If it infringes on personal freedom, let's try not to do it.
If someone's a dick, let's try to do something about it.

If your ideology interferes with any of the above, you're a dick.

This is a good summary for me as well. I don't agree with government picking winners and losers. I think the tax code is ridiculously complex and often punitive. I also think that corporate capitalism, where those who get the reward are not the same as those who take the risk, is a bastardized form of capitalism and one that requires regulation to minimize abuse. Unfortunately, that lends itself to abuse as well.

Life and the world are too complex for simple, one size fits all, solutions.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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03-06-2014, 08:01 PM
RE: What happened to frankjs?
Luminon,

The Austrian school of economics is not interested in empiricism exactly because of the ideology and values not because they are interested to see how their theories fare in real life. Their study of economics is axiomatic even more than Keynesian economists.

Economics is a discipline where values don't matter. Just like biology. It's not interested in how moral the free market or evolution is. Its just the study of the use of scarce resources. It's a science.

It's fine to hold your values as crazy as the might be. At the end of he day they are still that, values.

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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04-06-2014, 09:43 AM
RE: What happened to frankjs?
(03-06-2014 10:06 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I joined that quest (not crusade) when I was born. It is what drives my very being... more important than anything material; more important than knowing where my next BJ is coming from ...
Consider
... OK, it's the second most important driver.

I just don't believe anyone has found any yet.

If you want to start a new thread about it, fill yer boots but no text walls please... as it's universally true that tl;dr will be the response.

Tongue
Please, have a look here.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...-manifesto




(03-06-2014 08:01 PM)djkamilo Wrote:  Luminon,

The Austrian school of economics is not interested in empiricism exactly because of the ideology and values not because they are interested to see how their theories fare in real life. Their study of economics is axiomatic even more than Keynesian economists.

Economics is a discipline where values don't matter. Just like biology. It's not interested in how moral the free market or evolution is. Its just the study of the use of scarce resources. It's a science.

It's fine to hold your values as crazy as the might be. At the end of he day they are still that, values.
Economics is all about values and desire, it's like a psychology on mass scale. What people desire, they value. What they don't desire, they don't value. But they might pay for removing it. Austrian economics recognizes that fact. It's about people and what they desire and value. It's not about an imposed economic policy by some superior minds in luxurious offices, who know better than everyone else what people should and shouldn't want. That is just not true. Any single individual or group, no matter how expensive cigars they smoke, have just an infinitesimal part of information than the whole market network has.

We all know what is the best for us and nobody knows that better than us.
So it is equally true that we may not know what is the best for everyone else. That is a fact of human communication. This is why Keynesian elite economy is a rule book of ignorant proud central planning technocrats, who are removed from the market network and can only interact through it by forceful interventions. Things rarely get crazier than that.

If you think government knows better than the market, all right, let's test it! Let's start from the basics. Schools are such a complex thing, we have to start with basic necessities, like food. Let's let the government regulate all food. Government should take over all the farmer business, all grocery stores and supermarkets. Government knows so well when and what do we want to eat.
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04-06-2014, 09:53 AM
RE: What happened to frankjs?
(04-06-2014 09:43 AM)Luminon Wrote:  If you think government knows better than the market, all right, let's test it! Let's start from the basics. Schools are such a complex thing, we have to start with basic necessities, like food. Let's let the government regulate all food. Government should take over all the farmer business, all grocery stores and supermarkets. Government knows so well when and what do we want to eat.

Most excellent straw man, Luminon; most excellent indeed.

Clearly, the only alternative to no regulation whatsoever is all the regulation.

There is obviously no possible middle ground. Nope! Continuum fallacy false choices are the only way to look at things.

I think you'll find governments do regulate the content of what can be sold as food. As it turns out, that's actually the best way to prevent amoral corporations from exploiting incredibly unequal producer/consumer relationships from selling any old shit to you as food.
(and no, "any old shit" is not hyperbole)

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