What happens after these US elections?
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27-06-2016, 01:18 PM
RE: What happens after these US elections?
(27-06-2016 12:39 PM)Leela Wrote:  @ onlinebiker: I am not sure how this is an answer to my relatively complex question. I am also not sure what age has to do with a very valid question? But to answer that one, no I am not a young person.

@ Anjele & Momsurroundedbyboys: This is exactly what I am wondering. I get that at some point you stopped caring because maybe you feel like your vote doesn't make an actual difference or maybe because you feel like you cannot make a change anyway, etc. Believe me I know the feeling, it is one of the reasons I migrated to Ireland. But speaking from your own perspective, what would be needed for you to say "ok enough is enough, I am going to <insert revolutionary statement here>" ?


Being older has one advantage - you get to see these sort of things over and over - and learn the patterns.... Younger people may lack the data to see things in that light....

The pattern in this case - is politicians screaming that "It's REALLY important that you vote for me, so things can change" ---- then (surprise, surprise) they get elected and nothing does.................

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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27-06-2016, 01:27 PM
RE: What happens after these US elections?
(27-06-2016 01:17 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I would like to see The Electoral College done away with and a life in upper politics not be so lucrative.

The electoral college is a problem - it is corrupt. The concept of an "electoral college" will perpetuate, it is just that we will have a better system, including a local democracy (referendum) election. Electoral assemblies of various qualification standards will make-up the college.

Senate of Jurists
Board of Governors
League of Attorneys
Network of Representatives
local elections

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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27-06-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: What happens after these US elections?
(27-06-2016 12:39 PM)Leela Wrote:  @ onlinebiker: I am not sure how this is an answer to my relatively complex question. I am also not sure what age has to do with a very valid question? But to answer that one, no I am not a young person.

@ Anjele & Momsurroundedbyboys: This is exactly what I am wondering. I get that at some point you stopped caring because maybe you feel like your vote doesn't make an actual difference or maybe because you feel like you cannot make a change anyway, etc. Believe me I know the feeling, it is one of the reasons I migrated to Ireland. But speaking from your own perspective, what would be needed for you to say "ok enough is enough, I am going to <insert revolutionary statement here>" ?

Leela,

My vote personally means squat in my area. The state leans overwhelmingly democrat but my voting district is overwhelmingly conservative. My county was one of the many more rural and Podunk that voted against gay marriage for example -- actually they voted for a bill that defined marriage as a man and woman only -- later struck down by scotus

It's hard being so unmotivated to vote.

For me the most revolutionary thing I did was just stop paying attention to elections and stopped voting. Not sure if I'll vote in the coming election or not.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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27-06-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: What happens after these US elections?
(27-06-2016 01:18 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(27-06-2016 11:25 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Our political process has become a news version of a reality show.

It always has been a reality show, you just did not understand it to be that.

If it wasn't, then what is/was the more pure description of it???

I don't know if it always has been, one might argue that it wasn't so drastic before 1960. People listening to the radio believed Nixon won the debate against Kennedy, while those who watched it on tv thought the opposite.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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27-06-2016, 02:10 PM (This post was last modified: 27-06-2016 02:14 PM by TrainWreck.)
RE: What happens after these US elections?
(27-06-2016 01:48 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I don't know if it always has been, one might argue that it wasn't so drastic before 1960. People listening to the radio believed Nixon won the debate against Kennedy, while those who watched it on tv thought the opposite.

The relative difference being the sophistication development of the media.

The best theory I have heard suggests that the television audience unwittingly saw a more comfortable Kennedy to a sweaty Nixon, because of studio air manipulation by the media production.

It should not be that difficult for you to recognize how previous generations experienced manipulation of the candidates' speeches in newspapers - national and local manipulations. Stump speeches are probably the most notable situations - same speech in every town just add empty promises to any local sympathies.

You can safely bet it has always been going on; and what the Clintons, thus far, have proven is that politicians can still out-right lie to the general public and get away with it. It is absolutely embarrassing what she is doing, and my fellow atheists are just like my fellow Christians, Jews, ragheads, chinks, spics, niggers, and white trash - stupid Drinking Beverage

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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27-06-2016, 02:18 PM
RE: What happens after these US elections?
(27-06-2016 02:10 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(27-06-2016 01:48 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I don't know if it always has been, one might argue that it wasn't so drastic before 1960. People listening to the radio believed Nixon won the debate against Kennedy, while those who watched it on tv thought the opposite.

The relative difference being the sophistication development of the media.

The best theory I have heard suggests that the television audience unwittingly saw a more comfortable Kennedy to a sweaty Nixon, because of studio air conditioning manipulation by the media production.

It should not be that difficult for you to recognize how previous generation experienced manipulation of the candidates' speeches in newspapers - national and local manipulations. Stump speeches are probably the most notable situations - same speech in every town just add empty promises to any local sympathies.

You can safely bet it has always been going on. And what the Clintons thus far have proven is that politicians can out right lie to the general public and get away with it. It is absolutely embarrassing what she is doing, but my fellow atheists are just like my fellow Christians, Jews, ragheads, chinks, spics, niggers, and white trash - stupid

I love how you start out a teeny bit thoughtful and then just go a little bit too far. *sigh*

That said you're likely apt in the assessment of the Stump speeches -- which were usually on train lines, seems things got worse with television, but maybe not.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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27-06-2016, 02:41 PM
RE: What happens after these US elections?
(27-06-2016 02:18 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I love how you start out a teeny bit thoughtful and then just go a little bit too far. *sigh*

I think you have a long ways to go before you can think about being friends with me - I am not going to learn anything I need to get through life from you, and I do not think you are going to be a credible sponsor for me.

(27-06-2016 02:18 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  That said you're likely apt in the assessment of the Stump speeches -- which were usually on train lines, seems things got worse with television, but maybe not.

Seems to me, things got worse when the train lines were installed; and then the telegraph, and then the radio broadcast, and then the networks, and then the Internet. Here we are with a "miracle" of communications and things are fucked-up. I think your description was the same as that made several generations ago - in politics nothing really changes. Although the politicians promise change.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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27-06-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: What happens after these US elections?
(27-06-2016 02:41 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(27-06-2016 02:18 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I love how you start out a teeny bit thoughtful and then just go a little bit too far. *sigh*

I think you have a long ways to go before you can think about being friends with me - I am not going to learn anything I need to get through life from you, and I do not think you are going to be a credible sponsor for me.

That's fine, I'm not planning on changing your mind about anything.
(27-06-2016 02:41 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(27-06-2016 02:18 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  That said you're likely apt in the assessment of the Stump speeches -- which were usually on train lines, seems things got worse with television, but maybe not.

Seems to me, things got worse when the train lines were installed; and then the telegraph, and then the radio broadcast, and then the networks, and then the Internet. Here we are with a "miracle" of communications and things are fucked-up. I think your description was the same as that made several generations ago - in politics nothing really changes. Although the politicians promise change.

Agreed. Odd, how the more change promised, the more things seem to remain the same.

That's why I've more or less checked out of politics. I find I'm more informed being considered part of the "uninformed" masses, who don't watch television or listen to the radio (unless it's the commercial free jazz station sponsored by a local community college), than I ever was when I did actively watch the news.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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27-06-2016, 04:10 PM
RE: What happens after these US elections?
Because the only way to "change Washington" requires a change to the constitution, and there are some people "in Washington" who realize it, and are in anticipation waiting for it to happen.

I think Ted Kennedy was savvy enough to recognize it, and Bill Clinton, and John McCain were in on it; and George W. figured it out on his own, if not informed by his father. I think President Obama learned after being elected - I think he was set-up to crash it, but he may survive. Trump is not afraid to "shut-down the government," and reboot with a new constitution. Hillary knows she does not have a new constitution.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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27-06-2016, 04:18 PM
RE: What happens after these US elections?
We need to remove money from politics first of all.

No more lobbying
No more campaign contributions

We can have an electoral fund where all candidates are handed the same amount of money to help them get elected.

We have to get big money out of this process.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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