What happens to a capitalist country when the jobs become automated?
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21-12-2012, 12:09 PM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2012 12:17 PM by FZUMedia.)
RE: What happens to a capitalist country when the jobs become automated?
Let's say central planning lead to all farming tools to be prohibited to increase jobs in agriculture, you could only work in agriculture without any kind of tools, back to the medieval ages- you understand what impacts that would have to the quality of life to everyone? Sure many many more people will be employed, but now your corn cob is $10, and the people that would otherwise put their work somewhere else for capital growth will no longer happen. You have to look at the hidden costs, where this is being done in smaller ways right now. Understanding economics is looking at the whole picture, it's a complicated universe.

Sure, automation sucks for those that are getting laid off for it, but it adds to the over all wealth of nations the more automation there is, as you can clearly see in our agricultural systems, we now have 10x more food than the medieval era. Those farming jobs are not permanently lost, they just evolve alongside the market to other jobs where they are needed- assuming the minimum wage isn't too high and the government stays out of people's trading (which it obviously doesn't) is where the problem is- not the capitalist geniuses that seek to improve efficiency. There will always be need for human capital, but the market is not static, no job is safe by definition and nobody 'owes' you a job.

Hope this answers your concerns.
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21-12-2012, 02:48 PM
RE: What happens to a capitalist country when the jobs become automated?
(21-12-2012 12:09 PM)FZUMedia Wrote:  Let's say central planning lead to all farming tools to be prohibited to increase jobs in agriculture, you could only work in agriculture without any kind of tools, back to the medieval ages- you understand what impacts that would have to the quality of life to everyone? Sure many many more people will be employed, but now your corn cob is $10, and the people that would otherwise put their work somewhere else for capital growth will no longer happen. You have to look at the hidden costs, where this is being done in smaller ways right now. Understanding economics is looking at the whole picture, it's a complicated universe.

Sure, automation sucks for those that are getting laid off for it, but it adds to the over all wealth of nations the more automation there is, as you can clearly see in our agricultural systems, we now have 10x more food than the medieval era. Those farming jobs are not permanently lost, they just evolve alongside the market to other jobs where they are needed- assuming the minimum wage isn't too high and the government stays out of people's trading (which it obviously doesn't) is where the problem is- not the capitalist geniuses that seek to improve efficiency. There will always be need for human capital, but the market is not static, no job is safe by definition and nobody 'owes' you a job.

Hope this answers your concerns.
Are you referring to agriculture in the U.S.? Crops in the U.S. recieve heavy government subsidies to even stay afloat on the world market and that is still shrinking. The U.S. agricultural system also has pushed harmful and unsanitary products which many countries don't allow or don't like or don't buy. Since when has the U.S. agriculture system been a success?
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21-12-2012, 03:16 PM
RE: What happens to a capitalist country when the jobs become automated?
Star Trek starts to happen, but then humanity overdoses, and Mad max happens.

Medium well is perfect. More is practically char, less is still alive.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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22-12-2012, 02:37 PM
RE: What happens to a capitalist country when the jobs become automated?
(21-12-2012 03:16 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Star Trek starts to happen, but then humanity overdoses, and Mad max happens.

Medium well is perfect. More is practically char, less is still alive.


I am not sure you are correct. In star trek people were employeed by choice. Everyone is given a place to live. Size is based on what they are willing to learn and do. Today working does not mean that you will have a place to live. I can't picture Mad Max happening, because the powers that be are way too greedy and that would seem too fair a system. No rule of law. I picture the furure being more like Teminator mixed with 1984 at the present rate of developement and the direction we are going.
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22-12-2012, 03:26 PM
RE: What happens to a capitalist country when the jobs become automated?
(19-12-2012 12:29 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  What happens to a capitalist country when the jobs become automated?

I would say that you should wait until you come to the bridge, crossing it at that point. However, if the idea is coming up as something of importance, that needs to be addressed now, I think it would be a good idea to just keep going, waiting until you get to the river. At that point, you will realize that there isn't a bridge to cross.

When in the water, if you sink, I think you are in luck-- that means you are not a witch. Otherwise, sorry about your luck.

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25-12-2012, 06:45 AM
RE: What happens to a capitalist country when the jobs become automated?
(19-12-2012 12:29 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  So I saw this on Big Think and drifted in and out, but a few key points brought up questions.







So, they pace of technology is certainly increasing exponentially. Jobs that we laughingly dismissed as one day being automated... are now actually becoming automated. The cashier is now a self-checkout machine. Some restaurants have soda dispensers for your drinks and screens where you punch in your order, reducing the needed staff to simply cooks (which will also most likely become eventually automated (a perfect medium-well steak every time!)). Human beings will never be able to match the efficiency of machines. Machines don't need rest, lunch breaks, maternity leave, vacations, or an hourly wage.

And here in the US, we consider a high unemployment rate to be an indication of a bad economy. Well what happens when there are simply too many people and no need for human employment? Since our existence is seemingly based on currency, what can we do to feed and house ourselves? Do we sit back in comfort, finally achieving a stage in human existence where employment is an unnecessary endeavor? Do we collect a monthly government allowance? Will we all be confined to do impossible-to-automate type jobs; like art, music, sports, and creativity-intensive activities?
The guy in the video seems way off base. In what universe does he live? Yes, the monotonous assembly line activities are better done by machines, or will be soon. However, there is no way in hell that everyone is going to be able to get jobs as innovators. How is the job market going to support something like that in a capitalistic economy? It is utter nonsense.

Capitalism fails of course. It seems fairly evident this is happening right now really.
There
are 1.5 million people employed in the military. Most of these people
really don't accomplish anything, at least nothing productive. There
are 2.5 million people incarcerated in the US. Many of these people are
non-violent offenders whom are only in prison for corporate profit.
These people like many others not mentioned are no accomplishing
anything. They are merely living off the govt funds, tax payer money.
If you add just these people to the job market, and unemployment would
skyrocket. Millions more jobs rely on nothing more than moving around money in one form or another.

The model we need to move away from is the idea that everyone has to work, and work the same amount of time. As automation and productivity increases then we as a society should require less people to work less often.

This guy is a little eccentric, but I agree with his overall idea.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
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27-12-2012, 07:23 AM
RE: What happens to a capitalist country when the jobs become automated?
Quote:The guy in the video seems way off base. In what universe does he live?
Yes, the monotonous assembly line activities are better done by
machines, or will be soon. However, there is no way in hell that
everyone is going to be able to get jobs as innovators. How is the job
market going to support something like that in a capitalistic economy?
It is utter nonsense.

Oh, I wasn't aware you were able to see into the future to know what jobs would be available then.
That must be a nice gift.

100 years ago they were just getting off the ground, literally.
Look at how many jobs the aviation industry provides now, not to mention the ease of travel.
Or what about the movies, they said that'd never take off, now look at the movie industry now. The Hobbit is said to bring my country an estimated $1billion dollars in tourist revenue.
TV, internet etc.. All revolutionized how we (people) live.
If I was born 200years ago I'd be a farmer. Born 100 years ago I'd still be a farmer (and then likely solider).
Born today and my options are far far far far greater then that of back then.

Who's to say what jobs will be available 50, 100 years from now?

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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27-12-2012, 07:45 AM
RE: What happens to a capitalist country when the jobs become automated?
Automation has reduced the number of job opportunities, so there is a set of new government programs.

The Government has decided to implement a scheme to put workers of 55 years of age and above on early, mandatory retirement, thus creating jobs and reducing unemployment.

This scheme will be known as RAPE (Retire Aged People Early).

Persons selected to be RAPED can apply to the Government to be
considered for the SHAFT program (Special Help After Forced
Termination).

Persons who have been RAPED and SHAFTED will be reviewed under the SCREW program (System Covering Retired-Early Workers).

A person may be RAPED once, SHAFTED twice and SCREWED as many times as the Government deems appropriate.

Persons who have been RAPED could get AIDS (Additional Income for Dependents & Spouse) or HERPES (Half Earnings for Retired Personnel Early Severance).

Obviously persons who have AIDS or HERPES will not be SHAFTED
or SCREWED any further by the Government.

Persons who are not RAPED and are staying on will receive as
much SHIT (Special High Intensity Training) as possible. The
Government has always prided themselves on the amount of SHIT they give our citizens.

Should you feel that you do not receive enough SHIT, please bring this to the attention of your MP, who has been trained to give you all the SHIT you can handle.

Sincerely,
The Committee for Economic Value of Individual Lives (E.V.I.L.)

PS - Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas and oil, as well as current market conditions, The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-12-2012, 04:20 PM
RE: What happens to a capitalist country when the jobs become automated?
(27-12-2012 07:45 AM)Chas Wrote:  Automation has reduced the number of job opportunities, so there is a set of new government programs.

The Government has decided to implement a scheme to put workers of 55 years of age and above on early, mandatory retirement, thus creating jobs and reducing unemployment.

This scheme will be known as RAPE (Retire Aged People Early).

Persons selected to be RAPED can apply to the Government to be
considered for the SHAFT program (Special Help After Forced
Termination).

Persons who have been RAPED and SHAFTED will be reviewed under the SCREW program (System Covering Retired-Early Workers).

A person may be RAPED once, SHAFTED twice and SCREWED as many times as the Government deems appropriate.

Persons who have been RAPED could get AIDS (Additional Income for Dependents & Spouse) or HERPES (Half Earnings for Retired Personnel Early Severance).

Obviously persons who have AIDS or HERPES will not be SHAFTED
or SCREWED any further by the Government.

Persons who are not RAPED and are staying on will receive as
much SHIT (Special High Intensity Training) as possible. The
Government has always prided themselves on the amount of SHIT they give our citizens.

Should you feel that you do not receive enough SHIT, please bring this to the attention of your MP, who has been trained to give you all the SHIT you can handle.

Sincerely,
The Committee for Economic Value of Individual Lives (E.V.I.L.)

PS - Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas and oil, as well as current market conditions, The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.

This... this sounds stolen from Cracked or something. No one puts in that much work to for a post buried on page 3 of an obscure thread.

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27-12-2012, 04:24 PM
RE: What happens to a capitalist country when the jobs become automated?
(27-12-2012 04:20 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  
(27-12-2012 07:45 AM)Chas Wrote:  Automation has reduced the number of job opportunities, so there is a set of new government programs.

The Government has decided to implement a scheme to put workers of 55 years of age and above on early, mandatory retirement, thus creating jobs and reducing unemployment.

This scheme will be known as RAPE (Retire Aged People Early).

Persons selected to be RAPED can apply to the Government to be
considered for the SHAFT program (Special Help After Forced
Termination).

Persons who have been RAPED and SHAFTED will be reviewed under the SCREW program (System Covering Retired-Early Workers).

A person may be RAPED once, SHAFTED twice and SCREWED as many times as the Government deems appropriate.

Persons who have been RAPED could get AIDS (Additional Income for Dependents & Spouse) or HERPES (Half Earnings for Retired Personnel Early Severance).

Obviously persons who have AIDS or HERPES will not be SHAFTED
or SCREWED any further by the Government.

Persons who are not RAPED and are staying on will receive as
much SHIT (Special High Intensity Training) as possible. The
Government has always prided themselves on the amount of SHIT they give our citizens.

Should you feel that you do not receive enough SHIT, please bring this to the attention of your MP, who has been trained to give you all the SHIT you can handle.

Sincerely,
The Committee for Economic Value of Individual Lives (E.V.I.L.)

PS - Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas and oil, as well as current market conditions, The Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off.

This... this sounds stolen from Cracked or something. No one puts in that much work to for a post buried on page 3 of an obscure thread.
This.

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