What has given Christianity its staying power?
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26-01-2016, 09:29 AM
RE: What has given Christianity its staying power?
(26-01-2016 09:17 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...Bread apathy...

It all makes sense now. I've never really cared much for breads, and it seems to extend to pastas
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26-01-2016, 09:30 AM
RE: What has given Christianity its staying power?
(26-01-2016 08:51 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(26-01-2016 07:45 AM)Capn. Irrelevant Wrote:  What do you think gives Christianity its staying power?

The fact that it's true.

I had to give you a "Like", even though I think it's absolutely untrue.

Laugh out load
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26-01-2016, 09:31 AM (This post was last modified: 26-01-2016 10:13 AM by true scotsman.)
RE: What has given Christianity its staying power?
(26-01-2016 09:17 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-01-2016 07:45 AM)Capn. Irrelevant Wrote:  It's as alive and well as it has ever been for over 2,000 years, even the most extreme forms of it. What do you think gives Christianity its staying power?

Question 2: How long do you think it could possibly take for it to fade into known myth collectively, like say the worship of the Greek and Roman gods did?

No viable alternatives to it. Even atheism, has become more about proclaiming a lack of belief, as opposed to offering viable alternative beliefs to Christianity or theism. Not to mention other factors such as lower birth rates among non-religious, lack of evangelistic tendencies in most other religions, etc...

One way I can think that can cause more widespread non-religious sentiments, is to remove people's dependencies on community, foster a lack of trust in institutions and organized bodies all together. Your target audience should be folks without a college education, as most non-religious people tend to be. Bread apathy towards religion, and communities and you might have something going for you.

This is a very good point. Religion fills a very real need. Everyone needs a comprehensive view of the world and religion provides that. It's a false view of the world and ultimately a destructive view but like you said there really is not much of an alternative to it. Today and for the last 250 years the dominant philosophy has been skepticism or some variant. Of course atheism is not an alternative philosophy because it isn't a philosophy in the first place. It's a position on a single issue. It entails no other beliefs and it certainly doesn't offer a comprehensive view of the world.

There is a viable alternative but it is not well known, Objectivism. It is the real alternative to theism and it is actually true. It is the philosophy of reason. It fills the need of an objective, coherent view of the world that man needs. The only alternative to it is some form of subjectivism. Getting rid of religion will do no good if we don't replace it with rational philosophy. We don't need to push atheism. We should be advocates of reason and religion will die on the vine.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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26-01-2016, 09:32 AM
RE: What has given Christianity its staying power?
(26-01-2016 08:51 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(26-01-2016 07:45 AM)Capn. Irrelevant Wrote:  What do you think gives Christianity its staying power?

The fact that it's true.

Your fallacy for today:

Appeal To Tradition

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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26-01-2016, 09:37 AM
RE: What has given Christianity its staying power?
(26-01-2016 09:03 AM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  
(26-01-2016 08:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  Became widespread with the adoption as official religion in Roman Empire. Became tool of conquest and control in Europe through to early Middle Ages. Became unquestioned fact until 18th century, and even then only rarely, as it was protected by powerful interests.

Still is a tool for crowd control. Millions of followers. Very useful politically. Employs an army of priests and associated flunkies. Very profitable. You don't just throw something so powerful away. Expect those who profit from it to fight extremely hard not to let it fade.

Lots of things were profitable and useful to those in power... Like slaves.

Well now that it can't be forced on people, where does Christianity's staying power come from? People don't say "well I'm Christian because it helps those rich fuckers in power". It's usually some crap about Jesus and love and forgiveness or something feels related.

And slavery has only been illegal for what? Less than a couple of hundred years? And that's just in the US. Only was outlawed in Mali very recently IIRC, and still there are many de facto slaves all over the world.

Also those who profited from slavery were quite happy to even go so far as to mount a civil war to try and protect their interests. It's hardly like they just let it slip out of their fingers.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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26-01-2016, 09:50 AM
RE: What has given Christianity its staying power?
(26-01-2016 08:51 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(26-01-2016 07:45 AM)Capn. Irrelevant Wrote:  What do you think gives Christianity its staying power?

The fact that it's true.

Hinduism predates Christianity by like a shit load. An establish religion around 1750 BCE. And has practices and traditions that have been traced back to 30,000 BCE. Since that been around the longest and still going strong dose that make it more true?

Buddism has been around since 563 BCE. Still around. Still strong. Maybe that's true?

Christianity, wasn't adopted into being a "true" religion. until 380 AD.

Not the newest kid on the block. Like Scientology or Mormonism. But in terms of longevity. Not the longest. Just because a populous believes something is true. Doesn't mean it's true. Ill informed are easier to manipulate then the well-informed.


The reason why it's still going strong is obvious.

After the fall of Rome, Europe fell into the dark ages. Education, law and order, a system of government, all evaporated. With none of these the only things that people had left was their religious beliefs to pull them threw. The church already being established as acceptable by Constantine and Romes outstreached arms. The church filled the void (and their pockets) with being the new order. And for the most part it seemed to work. With each Church that was a wide variety of trades had opportunity.

Enter the crusades.

Enter the Spanish Inquisistion.

The Catholic Church took apon itself to whip out any who refused to see their way. The Church laid in bed with people in power. They gave them money and the church gave them eternlel salvation.

Being the only form of religion in the area. It took control. Then Europeans started moving to the New World. And with that they brought along all these old traditions. Killing anyone that didn't see it their way. Native Americans, African Slaves, Jews.

It's still around today because it's had a few hundreds of years to perfect it methods of conversion.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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26-01-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: What has given Christianity its staying power?
Lots of stuff keeps it going. That warm, fuzzy sense of community for its tribal members. pretty theatrical visuals in the rituals, the music, indoctrination in youth, threats of hell.


But mostly....brain wash.... brain wash...... brain wash until the brain is sooooo clean no actual thinking goes on.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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26-01-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: What has given Christianity its staying power?
(26-01-2016 08:51 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(26-01-2016 07:45 AM)Capn. Irrelevant Wrote:  What do you think gives Christianity its staying power?

The fact that it's true.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-01-2016, 10:08 AM
RE: What has given Christianity its staying power?
(26-01-2016 09:17 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-01-2016 07:45 AM)Capn. Irrelevant Wrote:  It's as alive and well as it has ever been for over 2,000 years, even the most extreme forms of it. What do you think gives Christianity its staying power?

Question 2: How long do you think it could possibly take for it to fade into known myth collectively, like say the worship of the Greek and Roman gods did?

No viable alternatives to it. Even atheism, has become more about proclaiming a lack of belief, as opposed to offering viable alternative beliefs to Christianity or theism. Not to mention other factors such as lower birth rates among non-religious, lack of evangelistic tendencies in most other religions, etc...

One way I can think that can cause more widespread non-religious sentiments, is to remove people's dependencies on community, foster a lack of trust in institutions and organized bodies all together. Your target audience should be folks without a college education, as most non-religious people tend to be. Bread apathy towards religion, and communities and you might have something going for you.

Just about everything in that post is incorrect. For example, more education is positively correlated with atheism.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-01-2016, 10:13 AM
RE: What has given Christianity its staying power?
(26-01-2016 07:45 AM)Capn. Irrelevant Wrote:  It's as alive and well as it has ever been for over 2,000 years, even the most extreme forms of it. What do you think gives Christianity its staying power?

I'm not particulary interested about history of christianity but isn't this 2000 years more a myth than the truth? Wasn't it just a small sect in the beggining?

As for staying power I would say being useful to people in power. Indoctrination and tradition also are a factor, quite big I would say.

(26-01-2016 07:45 AM)Capn. Irrelevant Wrote:  Question 2: How long do you think it could possibly take for it to fade into known myth collectively, like say the worship of the Greek and Roman gods did?

I would like it to happen as soon as possible but I think christianity will be with us for tens of year to come. It may be loosing appeal but change into myth (if ever happen) isn't a quick process.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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