What he said. Luke 23:34
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15-10-2013, 10:02 AM
What he said. Luke 23:34
This question is directed mainly for the apologist, but here goes. In Luke 23:34 (for others I realize this verse is not in some early manuscripts), but when Jesus prays, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." To whom is he referring? Is it the Romans, the Jews, the immediate crowd? Or is this, as I heard it before stated, a general prayer for mankind?

And did the Father honor that prayer?

"Now I don't want to be sane either, but I'm just saying there may be other delusions and hallucinations worthy of consideration before jumping to an irrational conclusion, that's all."
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15-10-2013, 10:16 AM
RE: What he said. Luke 23:34
Not many people know this but he is actually referring to the builders of the cross.

The 'father' he mentions is Joseph who in the past 30ish years has moved up the ranks to become a Quality Controller and Inspector of Carpentry.

Jesus has noticed the shoddy workmanship on the cross on which he is dangling and beseeches his real father to be lenient, knowing that the cross-carpentry team is under-staffed and under-trained.

Of course, some argue that this interpretation is too materialistic.

They know nothing!

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15-10-2013, 10:19 AM
RE: What he said. Luke 23:34
Even supposing we knew who he was forgiving, how do we explain his prayer in the first place? He is the Father, and the Father is in him, so who the hell is he praying to exactly?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

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15-10-2013, 10:20 AM
RE: What he said. Luke 23:34
(15-10-2013 10:16 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Not many people know this but he is actually referring to the builders of the cross.

This is why we can't have nice things. Dodgy

My guess is the Jews... I'd research it, but I hate that fucking book. Tongue

As for the second part, he must have forgiven them, 'cause there's still Jews. Big Grin

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15-10-2013, 12:58 PM
Re: What he said. Luke 23:34
He didn't say that, he couldn't have - per Bill O'Riley

He was talking about his followers, he knew they were going to be a bunch of nut cases and he was apologizing for causing it.

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15-10-2013, 09:03 PM
RE: What he said. Luke 23:34
I asked my theist friend this and as usual he avoids the obvious. My point was if God can forgive them (who ever he was referring) for not knowing what they were doing, then why the hell go through this human sacrifice thing anyway? And, were they forgiven and "saved" because Jesus asked for it or did the "Father" say "No" to his Son/Self?

"Now I don't want to be sane either, but I'm just saying there may be other delusions and hallucinations worthy of consideration before jumping to an irrational conclusion, that's all."
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15-10-2013, 09:50 PM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2013 10:15 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What he said. Luke 23:34
He was referring to the tasteless mismatching of checks with stripes, and other fashion faux pas he could see up there, and in general, all the outdated fashions from the year prior.

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16-10-2013, 10:01 AM
RE: What he said. Luke 23:34
What's so special about the cheese makers?

"Now I don't want to be sane either, but I'm just saying there may be other delusions and hallucinations worthy of consideration before jumping to an irrational conclusion, that's all."
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16-10-2013, 10:16 AM
RE: What he said. Luke 23:34
I was always taught it was directed toward the people crucifying him/calling for his crucifixion.
And I can only assume God said yes, since everybody didn't immediately die a sudden, horrific death.
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16-10-2013, 10:37 AM
RE: What he said. Luke 23:34
(15-10-2013 10:02 AM)Fisty_McBeefpunch Wrote:  This question is directed mainly for the apologist, but here goes. In Luke 23:34 (for others I realize this verse is not in some early manuscripts), but when Jesus prays, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." To whom is he referring? Is it the Romans, the Jews, the immediate crowd? Or is this, as I heard it before stated, a general prayer for mankind?

And did the Father honor that prayer?
When I was a believer, I took this to mean anyone involved in his crucifixion - the Romans, the onlookers, etc.

On the other hand, maybe he meant the Trinity. Drinking Beverage

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