What if Satan was the real good and God was the real evil?
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11-01-2016, 10:09 AM
RE: What if Satan was the real good and God was the real evil?
(10-01-2016 10:03 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  You guys are acting like a bunch of angry Christians right now. It's rather disheartening to watch.

No, we aren't. When reason fails to make a dent, we turn to ridicule.

It has ever been thus. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-01-2016, 12:03 PM
RE: What if Satan was the real good and God was the real evil?
(10-01-2016 09:34 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You think that something that can be observed in multiple, widely varies social species of life (altruism) in itself isn't proof of universal morality?

Yes.

Because it isn't.

You need to look up the definition of "universal".

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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11-01-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: What if Satan was the real good and God was the real evil?
(11-01-2016 12:22 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 10:59 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  And yet you keep engaging with him regardless, and stoop to his level in the process. What does that say of you?


His level? I know how to use a dictionary and a thesaurus, I'm nowhere near his level, thanks.


(10-01-2016 10:59 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  I'm sure many of the atheists on this forum, if they had been conversed with during their fundie years, would have been considered "a pile of contemptible ignorance and lies" as well. Could you imagine speaking such harsh words to one of them now that you're better acquainted with them as people?


If they were being dishonest cunts who repeated lied time and time again, and ignored every time they were ever called out on it? If they repeatedly ignored the meaning of words to spew forth incoherent word salad? If they were only interested in pushing their bullshit and never listening or engaging? Then they would have been, at the time, utter assholes. Given repeated showings of such actions, as is the case with pops, would have long wrung out any semblance of 'benefit of the doubt'. Pops is a lying piece of shit, so he's not getting the kid gloves, precisely because of his actions on the forum. If he doesn't like it, he's always free to change how he engages with the forum. He can always stop being a lying piece of shit, nobody is forcing him write word salad and repeatedly lie to our faces.


(10-01-2016 10:59 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  And what about those whom are questioning or stuck in oppressive, fundamentalist families?


Doesn't apply to pops.


(10-01-2016 10:59 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Wouldn't you want them to have a safe environment here, an outlet for their curiosity or a venue of reprieve from the religious lunacy that surrounds them?


There is the Personal Help section, with rules put into place for just such a thing. Notice how I've never chewed out anyone over there genuinely looking for help and camaraderie. Once again, this doesn't apply to pops. If he was at all interested in honest dialogue, we simply wouldn't be having this conversation.



(10-01-2016 10:59 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  If this is the type of hostility one can expect from atheists for believing differently, why should we expect any of them to stick around?


This is the type of hostility anyone should expect for being a repeated nonsensical lying piece of shit, regardless of their god beliefs or lack of (see also: Luminon, plisky, I & I, etc.). I don't give him this level of vitriol because he's a kind and well meaning god believer, that would have been KC; and pops ain't no KC.


(10-01-2016 10:59 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  You could argue that they are different from "dishonest cretins" like what you find pops to be, but how is a confused, insecure, isolated questioning theist or fundie family kid going to know that?


That is not pops, near as anybody can tell. If someone came here and was honest about their intention in seeking evidence or alternative opinions and showed a willingness to consider other people's perspectives? We've had those people on the forums, and I don't bite their heads off. KC was fucking cool beans, and I've had cordial conversations with Aliza and other believers, even when we have vastly differing opinions, because of how they act on this forum. Pops is far beyond any benefit of the doubt, and has been flying his same shit brown colors for some time now. He deserves nothing more than the vitriol and contempt he has so rightly earned with his own actions. You're acting like we're ganging up on some wide-eyed forum newbie, and not a veteran bullshitter.


(10-01-2016 10:59 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  I understand the urge for caustic confrontation when you've got another simpleton apologist that can't understand squat, but engaging in baser tendencies like that as readily as I've noticed people tend to on this forum does incur a cost on the community's image.

Just my two cents.


Well, you can continue to clean up the shit on the carpet without saying anything, that's your choice. But I'll be damned if a serial rug-shitter doesn't get chewed out for shitting on the carpet for the umpteenth time. If pops were honest and actually wanted to engage and learn, that option has always been open to him; nobody here took that away from him. He chose to be a dishonest piece of shit. Any relationship built upon lies is bound to fail miserably, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. That's the bed he is now lying in, and he has nobody to blame but himself. Garbage in, garbage fucking out.
Firstly; I apologize before hand for my language, to all readers other than the one intended. It is unbecoming of anyone attempting to promote true righteousness under God.


So yeah, still waiting to know what it is I'm lying about. I do not lie, and haven't for a good while, bout 5-6 years now. Not perfect. You act like I'm just making shit up and rolling with it. You assume shit and then base your responses on that assumption, all the while being an arrogant, rude, hypocritical, better than thou, name calling bitch.

If I was inquisitive? Of what? What can you show me by any means whatsoever that I am wrong? Please, learn me, I'm dying to know. Why wouldn't you have shown this big obvious truth, or knowledge to me that will change my mind, some thing I missed in my blind Faith that wasn't with me all my life at all. Please extract the brain washing mumbojumbo that wasn't beaten into my head from birth.

It's been 6 months buddy. You aint got a damn thing that can come close to refuting a single thing I have stated yet. The so called converts that you personally win over must be some poor lost souls indeed.

Anyway, keep running your chops. Keep being a hypocrite that says to prove something while not proving anything themself.

No one wants to here that burden of proof bullshit. If I'm a retarded lying asshole, then why can't you do anything by talk bullshit?

Come on man, lay down some of these fuckin facts, let's have it. Show that fuckin moron who knows what the fuck is up.

Fake Ass bitch.


*again I apologize and feel bad for lowering myself to that level. It is not justified, yet needed to me personally. Chalk it up to personal want, greed, sin. Again, not perfect, a work in progress.

Peace,

Even you
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11-01-2016, 02:41 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2016 04:51 PM by popsthebuilder.)
RE: What if Satan was the real good and God was the real evil?
(11-01-2016 12:53 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  There's a way to handle an idiot with wit and style
Did that for weeks, even went to great lengths to try and show him the error in his thinking by applying it to other walks of life and other ideas. The response I got was repeated lies, harassment in my personal inbox so consistent I had to put him on ignore just to shut him up cause he wouldn't stop when asked, and finally a request for me to travel to him so he could visit physical violence on me all while claiming his a compassionate person who just wants to spread love.

He gets vile treatment not because he is an idiot but because he has a track record of being a vile human.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  but you guys are just being aggressive dickheads about it.
Again he repeatedly went out of his way to earn it. He want's to act like a shithead he's gonna get treated like a shithead.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Who the fuck tells somebody to go drown in a vat of their own shit or that they'd be better off dead, all because they believe differently than you?
No one here, because again it has nothing to do with the fact he believes differently and everything to do with being a shitty person who hides behind a wall of fake self-righteousness while lying and issuing threats when he does not get his way. I was happy to talk with him about what he believes and why, and how it's logically unsound, but he was dishonest, out right lied multiple times, avoided answering basic questions because he feels we don't have any business claiming he has to prove his bullshit and when his own opinion was used to show how stupid his own opinion was resorted to threats of violence (which last time I checked is against the rules).
He has earned his time in the Iron Maiden and until he reforms his fucking dishonest bullshit that is EXACTLY where he is gonna stay.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  It reminds me of that video where Richard Dawkins was reading his hate mail and a Christian wished for him to get run over by a church van.
It can remind you of that all you like but considering Richard Dawkins never publicly threatened to harm that person or lied repeatedly and maliciously to and about that person in conversation they are not really the same are they? One is contempt by virtue of the fact that person exists the other is justified contempt by the fact that person has a history of being a fuckin' shit human being and turning around and playing the victim.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  If I was a Christian, I would be sarcastically highlighting the comments in this thread as examples of the "tolerant, free thinking atheist."
So bloody what bruv? I've said flat out multiple times I'm entirely intolerant of people who lie to my face in a debate. I'm even less tolerant of people who threaten to harm me, and less so of men who try to murder their wives like he has. I guess I'm old fashioned that way. Fuck 'em, when your going to come in here and start lying for Jesus and then resort to throwing threats around when your called on it you bet your ass that guy is gonna be treated like a dishonest asshat by me. I gave him about a dozen chances to amend his ways and he didn't, he just compiled them and continued acting worse and worse. I couldn't care less if my intolerance of a vile little man is used by people in their confirmation bias circle jerks. I ain't in PR.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  It's downright embarrassing to watch people who proclaim to be more intelligent and better morally adjusted than fundamentalists engage in the exact same type of behavior as those they criticize.
Except as we have just been over it's not the same. One is just bigotry the other is an entirely justified and earned loathing.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  It only enforces the caricature of the angry atheist..
Not my problem. If people, theist or atheist, want to make judgments of my behavior without context or the history behind them they are free to do that. They could ASK why I dislike him if they don't know. When a motherfucker threatens me with physical violence he's crossed a line and he is gonna get a right nasty bastard and people can think what ever they wanna think about that.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  alienates mainstream or questioning theists from engaging with those of differing beliefs
Currently engaged in an entirely cordial , respectful, and relaxed conversation with one at this very moment in another thread. You know why? Cause he's not acting like a lying or psychopathic cunt. You get back what you put in, and just like Wicked_Clown or Call_of_the_wild and many others I get along with people perfectly fine right up until they start lying. Got no tolerance for dishonest people, and I'd be an idiot if I did.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  and is overall distasteful behavior.
You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it, and if I'm being honest, I completely understand where you are coming from. If I didn't have the full picture of pops behavior I'd think I was being unreasonable too. However I do have the full picture, and as long as he continues to lie about and continue his behavior he's gonna get treated like the kind of person he is.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Pops being an idiot doesn't justify....
His idiocy is not why he's getting treated the way he is. His idiocy was dealt with, dismantled, and tossed aside ages ago like the ill formed rubbish it is. It's his actions that have him on the shit list, and that's where he will stay until his behavior is mended or he fucks off for good.
You are lying and bending the truth to your liking.

I threatened you on he internet because of your repeated lies about me.

I pm d you two or three times. The first time I was privately trying to reconcile our mutual contempt towards one another. You replied with refusal. I replied back. Then you acted like I was harassing you or something. You are the shady one here, and the liar. Not me.

You are manipulative to no end, and will not hear reasoning, all while accusing people of being things they are not, trolling in other words.
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11-01-2016, 02:43 PM
RE: What if Satan was the real good and God was the real evil?
(11-01-2016 01:14 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 10:59 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  And yet you keep engaging with him regardless, and stoop to his level in the process. What does that say of you?
Not one person here has stooped to his level, as no one has lied to him, about him, nor threatened to meet him someplace and hospitalize him.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  I'm sure many of the atheists on this forum, if they had been conversed with during their fundie years, would have been considered "a pile of contemptible ignorance and lies" as well.
Yes if they were knowingly engaged in lying then yes they would be treated as lairs. If they acted contemptuously they would be treated with contempt. Those are all ACTIONS though. Pops is not being shit on because he thinks differently but because he lies, threatens, and acts like a general bag of dicks. His actions, not his beliefs, are the culprit so your point is kinda irrelevant even if I see what you intended.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Could you imagine speaking such harsh words to one of them now that you're better acquainted with them as people?
If they were still actively lying and acting like a cunt? Uh..ya I would. I don't treat the atheists here like lying cunts because they don't act like lying cunts.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  And what about those whom are questioning or stuck in oppressive, fundamentalist families? Wouldn't you want them to have a safe environment here, an outlet for their curiosity or a venue of reprieve from the religious lunacy that surrounds them?
Curiosity? Absolutely. Freedom from religious lunacy? Always. A place for them to spew lies to and about people and issue threats of violence? Fuck no. Not fucking now, not fucking ever.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  If this is the type of hostility one can expect from atheists for believing differently...
Not even remotely what's going on here which you would know if you had asked what was going on.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  You could argue that they are different from "dishonest cretins" like what you find pops to be, but how is a confused, insecure, isolated questioning theist or fundie family kid going to know that?
By our actions. No one here is treating pops like shit cause of his beliefs.

(10-01-2016 10:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  I understand the urge for caustic confrontation when you've got another simpleton apologist that can't understand squat...
Again, not what's going on here. At all.
And really it was more of an invitation for you to back up your running mouth with actions.
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11-01-2016, 03:10 PM
RE: What if Satan was the real good and God was the real evil?
(11-01-2016 02:32 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You aint got a damn thing that can come close to refuting a single thing I have stated yet.

It is not up to anybody here to refute your claims. It is up to you to substantiate them.
Burden of Proof

If you do not have demonstrable evidence then the rational response is to not believe you.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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11-01-2016, 03:49 PM
RE: What if Satan was the real good and God was the real evil?
(11-01-2016 02:32 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 12:22 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  His level? I know how to use a dictionary and a thesaurus, I'm nowhere near his level, thanks.




If they were being dishonest cunts who repeated lied time and time again, and ignored every time they were ever called out on it? If they repeatedly ignored the meaning of words to spew forth incoherent word salad? If they were only interested in pushing their bullshit and never listening or engaging? Then they would have been, at the time, utter assholes. Given repeated showings of such actions, as is the case with pops, would have long wrung out any semblance of 'benefit of the doubt'. Pops is a lying piece of shit, so he's not getting the kid gloves, precisely because of his actions on the forum. If he doesn't like it, he's always free to change how he engages with the forum. He can always stop being a lying piece of shit, nobody is forcing him write word salad and repeatedly lie to our faces.




Doesn't apply to pops.




There is the Personal Help section, with rules put into place for just such a thing. Notice how I've never chewed out anyone over there genuinely looking for help and camaraderie. Once again, this doesn't apply to pops. If he was at all interested in honest dialogue, we simply wouldn't be having this conversation.





This is the type of hostility anyone should expect for being a repeated nonsensical lying piece of shit, regardless of their god beliefs or lack of (see also: Luminon, plisky, I & I, etc.). I don't give him this level of vitriol because he's a kind and well meaning god believer, that would have been KC; and pops ain't no KC.




That is not pops, near as anybody can tell. If someone came here and was honest about their intention in seeking evidence or alternative opinions and showed a willingness to consider other people's perspectives? We've had those people on the forums, and I don't bite their heads off. KC was fucking cool beans, and I've had cordial conversations with Aliza and other believers, even when we have vastly differing opinions, because of how they act on this forum. Pops is far beyond any benefit of the doubt, and has been flying his same shit brown colors for some time now. He deserves nothing more than the vitriol and contempt he has so rightly earned with his own actions. You're acting like we're ganging up on some wide-eyed forum newbie, and not a veteran bullshitter.




Well, you can continue to clean up the shit on the carpet without saying anything, that's your choice. But I'll be damned if a serial rug-shitter doesn't get chewed out for shitting on the carpet for the umpteenth time. If pops were honest and actually wanted to engage and learn, that option has always been open to him; nobody here took that away from him. He chose to be a dishonest piece of shit. Any relationship built upon lies is bound to fail miserably, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. That's the bed he is now lying in, and he has nobody to blame but himself. Garbage in, garbage fucking out.
Firstly; I apologize before hand for my language, to all readers other than the one intended. It is unbecoming of anyone attempting to promote true righteousness under God.


So yeah, still waiting to know what it is I'm lying about. I do not lie, and haven't for a good while, bout 5-6 years now. Not perfect. You act like I'm just making shit up and rolling with it. You assume shit and then base your responses on that assumption, all the while being an arrogant, rude, hypocritical, better than thou, name calling bitch.

If I was inquisitive? Of what? What can you show me by any means whatsoever that I am wrong? Please, learn me, I'm dying to know. Why wouldn't you have shown this big obvious truth, or knowledge to me that will change my mind, some thing I missed in my blind Faith that wasn't with me all my life at all. Please extract the brain washing mumbojumbo that wasn't beaten into my head from birth.

It's been 6 months buddy. You aint got a damn thing that can come close to refuting a single thing I have stated yet. The so called converts that you personally win over must be some poor lost souls indeed.

Anyway, keep running your chops. Keep being a hypocrite that says to prove something while not proving anything themself.

No one wants to here that burden of proof bullshit. If I'm a retarded lying asshole, then why can't you do anything by talk bullshit?

Come on man, lay down some of these fuckin facts, let's have it. Show that fuckin moron who knows what the fuck is up.

Fake Ass bitch.


*again I apologize and feel bad for lowering myself to that level. It is not justified, yet needed to me personally. Chalk it up to personal want, greed, sin. Again, not perfect, a work in progress.

Peace,

Even you

I think you're lying about hearing from god, it's up to you to prove it.

You've already admitted to being a hot-tempered basket case. Why should anyone believe anything you claim?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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11-01-2016, 04:25 PM
RE: What if Satan was the real good and God was the real evil?
(11-01-2016 03:49 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 02:32 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Firstly; I apologize before hand for my language, to all readers other than the one intended. It is unbecoming of anyone attempting to promote true righteousness under God.


So yeah, still waiting to know what it is I'm lying about. I do not lie, and haven't for a good while, bout 5-6 years now. Not perfect. You act like I'm just making shit up and rolling with it. You assume shit and then base your responses on that assumption, all the while being an arrogant, rude, hypocritical, better than thou, name calling bitch.

If I was inquisitive? Of what? What can you show me by any means whatsoever that I am wrong? Please, learn me, I'm dying to know. Why wouldn't you have shown this big obvious truth, or knowledge to me that will change my mind, some thing I missed in my blind Faith that wasn't with me all my life at all. Please extract the brain washing mumbojumbo that wasn't beaten into my head from birth.

It's been 6 months buddy. You aint got a damn thing that can come close to refuting a single thing I have stated yet. The so called converts that you personally win over must be some poor lost souls indeed.

Anyway, keep running your chops. Keep being a hypocrite that says to prove something while not proving anything themself.

No one wants to here that burden of proof bullshit. If I'm a retarded lying asshole, then why can't you do anything by talk bullshit?

Come on man, lay down some of these fuckin facts, let's have it. Show that fuckin moron who knows what the fuck is up.

Fake Ass bitch.


*again I apologize and feel bad for lowering myself to that level. It is not justified, yet needed to me personally. Chalk it up to personal want, greed, sin. Again, not perfect, a work in progress.

Peace,

Even you

I think you're lying about hearing from god, it's up to you to prove it.

You've already admitted to being a hot-tempered basket case. Why should anyone believe anything you claim?
I can get a bad attitude at times. I am also not what you would consider average on a social level.

That doesn't make me crazy. It definitely doesn't make me a liar.

Many socially strange people have discovered amazing things. The things they discovered were also generally regarded as false or fantastical initially.
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11-01-2016, 04:34 PM
RE: What if Satan was the real good and God was the real evil?
(11-01-2016 04:25 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 03:49 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I think you're lying about hearing from god, it's up to you to prove it.

You've already admitted to being a hot-tempered basket case. Why should anyone believe anything you claim?
I can get a bad attitude at times. I am also not what you would consider average on a social level.

That doesn't make me crazy. It definitely doesn't make me a liar.

Many socially strange people have discovered amazing things. The things they discovered were also generally regarded as false or fantastical initially.

If you're claiming about hearing from god, yet have no proof he exists, you are:

1.Lying
2.Delusional
3.Truthful

Here's the catch with number three though- unless you have some rock-solid evidence to back your claims, there's no reason for anyone to presume you're telling the truth. So the choices are either 1 or 2, until that evidence is presented.

BTW-It's going to have to be far more credible than personal experience.

That's when you have to seriously consider presenting scientifically rigorous evidence. Good luck with that.....Drinking Beverage

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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11-01-2016, 04:45 PM
RE: What if Satan was the real good and God was the real evil?
Assumption of any sort is not too cool, technically leaving all three options opened. Giving the nature of the non material, it may be some time before it can be tested scientifically. I think some sort of tests could be set up to monitor chemical changes in the brain, the possibility of changes in levels of cognitive aptitude, and acuteness of senses, among other things. Other ways the things can be tested is through trial of the things I claim by the individual. I'm sure there are other ways to collect data that would either confirm or deny what I believe. I doubt any of these things will be seen by me personally though. Tough break on my part. I'll keep fightin the good fight.

I do really appreciate the change in tone.

Thank you.
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