What if the Universe is math?
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01-02-2014, 02:43 PM (This post was last modified: 01-02-2014 03:02 PM by GirlyMan.)
What if the Universe is math?
Not described by math, but is math. Math is reality and reality is math. Seems simultaneously both provocative and a natural extension of Spinozaism by providing a unifying substrate for reality which supports both matter and thought to me. But the man himself Baruch has studied Spinoza more than Girly. Hope this thread tickles his balls. Big Grin (In all honesty, Chippy probably has too, but no good ever seems to come from tickling his balls. Tongue )

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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01-02-2014, 03:15 PM
RE: What if the Universe is math?
There are things in math which do not apply to reality so no.
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01-02-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: What if the Universe is math?
(01-02-2014 03:15 PM)donotwant Wrote:  There are things in math which do not apply to reality so no.

Yeah.....like calculus. Dafuq is that shit anyway? Buncha random numbers like it's supposed to make sense.

Bechased

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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01-02-2014, 03:25 PM
RE: What if the Universe is math?
Math has many notions of infinity which do not apply. For instance you can't divide something forever.
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01-02-2014, 03:27 PM
RE: What if the Universe is math?
Definitely plausible that the universe/reality is a mathematical "object" NOT just a mathematical description. Some mathematical equations are just descriptive models with approximations eg classical Newtonian mechanics. The descriptive model is like the map to the territory. The map is not the territory.
Map = descriptive model with epistemological limitations and approximations.
Territory = Ontological reality.

However it is plausible that as the map increases in scope & detail that it eventually completely overlaps and becomes identical to the territory. i.e the mathematics *IS* the territory but we can also use mathematics as a description to describe the territory with shortcuts. I.e to get a rocket to the moon Newtonian descriptive mathematics will just do fine.
I like the analogy because to drive to the supermarket I just need a basic descriptive map, I don't need an ontological model laying out every particle of dust on the road to the supermarket.

I have been reading 'Our Mathematical Universe: My Quest for the Ultimate Nature of Reality by Tegmark, Max (7 Jan 2014) '

Max Tegmark is definitely qualified to discuss the topic due to both practical cosmological and theoretical mathematical breakthroughs and expertise.
The book starts of with what we know, then gradually gets more speculative and is a mixture of hard science & what seem like far fetched ideas later on (so called 4D parallel multiverses as mathematical 'objects')

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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01-02-2014, 03:29 PM
RE: What if the Universe is math?
(01-02-2014 03:25 PM)donotwant Wrote:  Math has many notions of infinity which do not apply. For instance you can't divide something forever.

Argument from incredulity? Perhaps we just don't have the maths for it yet. [Image: i-dunno-hand-gesture-smiley-emoticon.gif]

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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01-02-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: What if the Universe is math?
(01-02-2014 03:23 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 03:15 PM)donotwant Wrote:  There are things in math which do not apply to reality so no.

Yeah.....like calculus. Dafuq is that shit anyway? Buncha random numbers like it's supposed to make sense.

Bechased

Calculus is just a short cut description of reality to make calculations easier (like a heuristic tool - a very good one).
You do not need to keep going on to plank space & plank time for every calculation !!!!!!!!
This tool also solves the problems of zeno's paradox without having to go into particle physics for basic calculations of velocity & momentum. Motion does actually occur ! (even if it is an emergent property on larger scales)

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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01-02-2014, 03:37 PM
RE: What if the Universe is math?
MathS

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01-02-2014, 03:39 PM
RE: What if the Universe is math?
(01-02-2014 03:25 PM)donotwant Wrote:  Math has many notions of infinity which do not apply. For instance you can't divide something forever.

We may be able to divide the continuum forever. Unless space and time are quantized.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-02-2014, 03:40 PM
RE: What if the Universe is math?
(01-02-2014 03:32 PM)Baruch Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 03:23 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Yeah.....like calculus. Dafuq is that shit anyway? Buncha random numbers like it's supposed to make sense.

Bechased

Calculus is just a short cut description of reality to make calculations easier (like a heuristic tool - a very good one).
You do not need to keep going on to plank space & plank time for every calculation !!!!!!!!
This tool also solves the problems of zeno's paradox without having to go into particle physics for basic calculations of velocity & momentum. Motion does actually occur ! (even if it is an emergent property on larger scales)

Yeah, I was just havin' some fun. Big Grin

(I do still hate me some maths, though. My mind is capable, my gumption lacks)

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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