What in hell is going on?
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27-12-2011, 01:16 PM
What in hell is going on?
Merry Christmas, and whatever other holidays you celebrated this week, everyone! I'm a musician and performed at 4 Catholic Christmas services this year. During the 3rd one, I started thinking about heaven and hell (go figure). I started digging on the web and found several sites describing hell, and found that some of the sites view hell as not a place of torture, but of just death and separation from god. Even William Lane Craig is saying that hell isn't about physical torture, rather, you just don't live eternally with the Almighty. Then of course, there are many sites dedicated to the purpose of scaring the shit out of you so you will become a Christian. But is it just me, or is the overall Christian view turning to the less violent notion that hell is just death and not being with god? In any case, I came to this conclusion: If you are a Christian, and you have any friends who don't accept Jesus as their savior, you know they are going to hell. How, then, can Heaven be total happiness and no suffering if your friends/loved ones are not with you, and you know those friends/loved ones are suffering for all eternity? Do you just accept it and move on? Does god erase those people from your memory? Does he erase hell from your memory? Any way you slice it, if you have knowledge that those people existed and aren't with you, how could that not make you sad? For all eternity?
Thoughts? Anyone? Atheists? Christians? Other religious?

"Religion is the binky of a teen-age humanity."
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27-12-2011, 01:29 PM
RE: What in hell is going on?
Good stuff... Eternal weeping for your loved ones that didn't make it.

Here is the real crazy part. Supposedly in the 'final battle' You will actually fight and kill the ones that are condemned. So your on the field of battle slashing and hacking those evil condemned non believers and sending them off to hell when you come across your mother... your son... and your compelled to kill them as it is written.

How's that for a mind fuck?

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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27-12-2011, 01:31 PM
RE: What in hell is going on?
I'll tell you how I was taught to answer to that.

After you die and you experience god up-close, you gain access to some kind of supreme understanding, God's perfect plan becomes obvious to you and everything you experience there will make whatever happened in this life completely meaningless to you, because in reality it is truly meaningless. We are just unable to understand that now.

Whatever you loved, hated, liked or disliked, whatever was important for you here will become insignificant. I know that you think you will never get over the horrible death of your child that still makes you wake up screaming and/or crying. But you will. It will all seem distant and meaningless once you experience the Big Guy.

It's not that you'll be unable to speak to your grandma, but the earthly bond between you and her will have faded away and you will find out that the love you will feel in heaven for every single person there and, of course, for God will make whatever bonds you had in this world seem like strangers you once saw in a park.

When you're wearing the "god glasses", all that makes sense.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

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27-12-2011, 01:37 PM
RE: What in hell is going on?
You get a glorified body free from all pain.

How this is calculated no one knows.

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27-12-2011, 02:07 PM
RE: What in hell is going on?
(27-12-2011 01:31 PM)Malleus Wrote:  I'll tell you how I was taught to answer to that.

After you die and you experience god up-close, you gain access to some kind of supreme understanding, God's perfect plan becomes obvious to you and everything you experience there will make whatever happened in this life completely meaningless to you, because in reality it is truly meaningless. We are just unable to understand that now.

Meaningless. Nice. That explains quite a bit.

"Religion is the binky of a teen-age humanity."
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27-12-2011, 02:13 PM
RE: What in hell is going on?
Wouldn't it have been much more convenient if God would have included in his book a precise description of Heaven and Hell so mere humans didn't have to guess? You would think something that is the whole reason for religion would be a little more detailed and less open to interpretation.
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27-12-2011, 02:25 PM
RE: What in hell is going on?
I think the conflict arises from what the bible says and what Christians know of God's nature. The bible depicts Hell as everlasting fire, in both the literal words of Jesus in Matthew and through Jesus' parable of Lazarus and the rich man. However, Jesus is also not depicted as being vengeful or cruel, so it makes more sense that he'd just keep them in separation or annihilation.

I think Christians (like WLC) hedge their bets on this question because they don't want to contradict scripture but they don't want to contradict their view of a loving God. But that's just fine because there's no way to test Hell scientifically, so anyone's answer is just as accurate as another's answer as far as the evidence shows. You can say "I don't know what Hell is really like", and you'd be very reasonable to say so.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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27-12-2011, 04:35 PM
RE: What in hell is going on?
(27-12-2011 02:25 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I think the conflict arises from what the bible says and what Christians know of God's nature. The bible depicts Hell as everlasting fire, in both the literal words of Jesus in Matthew and through Jesus' parable of Lazarus and the rich man. However, Jesus is also not depicted as being vengeful or cruel, so it makes more sense that he'd just keep them in separation or annihilation. [Emphasis added]

I'm not so sure about that.

When Jesus sends out the disciples to preach the Gospel to "the lost sheep of Israel," this is what he tells them (Matthew 10:14-15):

14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

So if the inhabitants of some Judean village react to these preachers the way many of us react to Mormons at the door, Jesus reassures his proxies, "Don't worry. They'll get theirs." Recall that fire and brimstone rained down on Sodom and Gomorrah.

Sounds pretty vindictive to me.

As for cruel, there's the delightful story of Jesus and the Fig Tree (Matthew 21:18-22, Mark 11:12-14, 19-25). God's Kid is hungry; he comes upon a fig tree, hoping for some fruit, but there's nothing but leaves, since it wasn't the season for figs. So Jesus curses the tree and it dies. Nice.

I've never understand why the Gospel writers put that story in. It makes Jesus seem so petty and irrational. Did he really think it was the fig tree's fault there were no figs? Not the most admirable fellow, that Jesus.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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27-12-2011, 04:46 PM
RE: What in hell is going on?
It was a lesson to the disciples about “fruit”. As a believer you should always bear fruit, if you do not, you are useless.

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27-12-2011, 05:35 PM
RE: What in hell is going on?
If you're a disciple, maybe you're supposed to bear metaphorical fruit continually. But if you're a fig tree, you're not supposed to bear real figs at every moment, because that's not how you were designed (by nature, or, if you're a believer, by God). Seems to me that if you're the Son of God, you'd be able to come up with a more fitting illustration of your point.

I've always felt bad for that poor fig tree . . .

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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