What is Rape Culture?
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14-08-2014, 08:11 PM
RE: What is Rape Culture?
(14-08-2014 02:48 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  
(14-08-2014 01:27 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  That is a long list with no references what-so-ever. If you actually read the article from RAINN (an anti-rape group) you would know that 90% college rapes are committed by less than 3% of men.

My patience is with you is wearing very, very thin.

https://www.rainn.org/get-information/st...-offenders

Quote:Rapists are more likely to be a serial criminal than a serial rapist.

46% of rapists who were released from prison were re-arrested within 3 years of their release for another crime.4

18.6% for a violent offense.
14.8% for a property offense.
11.2% for a drug offense.
20.5% for a public-order offense.

Do. Some. Research.

This quote from you article

Quote:RAINN’s recommendations pointed to research that suggests that more than 90% of college rapes are committed by about 3% of college men (reliable research about female perpetrators is harder to come by)

Is almost certainly based of a study done, where 1 in 4 college women self reported they had been sexually assaulted, and about 3% of college men self reported they had forced someone to have sex with them at least once. Very suspect. I want to see the study.

Wow, I'm offending you? I would never want to do that! I am just so sorry. I will have to stop asking for evidence and accept all you say uncritically from now on, to avoid wearing your patience down.

Still no sources. Keep pulling stats out of your ass. They are worthless unless you can back them up.

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14-08-2014, 09:42 PM
Re: RE: What is Rape Culture?
(14-08-2014 08:11 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  
(14-08-2014 02:48 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  My patience is with you is wearing very, very thin.

https://www.rainn.org/get-information/st...-offenders


Do. Some. Research.

This quote from you article


Is almost certainly based of a study done, where 1 in 4 college women self reported they had been sexually assaulted, and about 3% of college men self reported they had forced someone to have sex with them at least once. Very suspect. I want to see the study.

Wow, I'm offending you? I would never want to do that! I am just so sorry. I will have to stop asking for evidence and accept all you say uncritically from now on, to avoid wearing your patience down.

Still no sources. Keep pulling stats out of your ass. They are worthless unless you can back them up.

Are you severely this deranged to not see something right in front of you?

The link posted in that post was containing that info and the link itself had reference to the reports.

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15-08-2014, 12:05 AM
RE: What is Rape Culture?
(14-08-2014 08:11 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  
(14-08-2014 02:48 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  My patience is with you is wearing very, very thin.

https://www.rainn.org/get-information/st...-offenders


Do. Some. Research.

This quote from you article


Is almost certainly based of a study done, where 1 in 4 college women self reported they had been sexually assaulted, and about 3% of college men self reported they had forced someone to have sex with them at least once. Very suspect. I want to see the study.

Wow, I'm offending you? I would never want to do that! I am just so sorry. I will have to stop asking for evidence and accept all you say uncritically from now on, to avoid wearing your patience down.

Still no sources. Keep pulling stats out of your ass. They are worthless unless you can back them up.

It would be one thing if you were aware of the research, and then you had something semi intelligible as a response. You remain willfully ignorant of the facts despite my best efforts to correct such ignorance. If you want to wallow in it be my guest. I have done my very best to educate you.
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15-08-2014, 12:09 AM
RE: What is Rape Culture?
(14-08-2014 05:07 PM)One Above All Wrote:  
(14-08-2014 04:06 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  It is my understanding that these numbers are compiled from self reported rape victims. They conduct a survey where they ask women if they have ever been sexually assaulted, and they self report if they have or have not.

What is the source of this understanding? That was/is also my opinion, but I was never able to find an article that disclosed how those numbers were obtained, which is why I reject(ed) my opinion on the subject.

I found this web page with a bunch of stats:
http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php

I followed one of the references to this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9276349

The study deals with alcohol and cigarette consumption as the focus, according to the abstract. They used a survey, which means rape would have been self reported, in addition to subsequent drug and alcohol use.

There are other references on that page. I imagine if you googled some of the terms you should be able to find the studies and see the methodology for yourself, as well as the subject matter of the papers and anything else you care to know.
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15-08-2014, 01:47 AM
RE: What is Rape Culture?
I don't think we tolerate rape… Rape jokes are not enforcing rape culture just like joking to kill someone is not enforcing the murder of people. Dead baby jokes are also not enforcing the killing of babies.

Sure, there are lots of biases in court when it comes to rape. But lets be honest, rape is a very difficult crime to convict someone by. After an x amount of days, there is no evidence or anything. Just someones word over another due to women being absolutely traumatized by such an event and not going to the police or at least telling someone right after it. It makes things difficult.

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15-08-2014, 02:10 AM
RE: What is Rape Culture?
(15-08-2014 12:09 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  There are other references on that page. I imagine if you googled some of the terms you should be able to find the studies and see the methodology for yourself, as well as the subject matter of the papers and anything else you care to know.

Thanks.
There are a few problems with the statistics on the first link, however. The first one is that some sort of contradict each other. Specifically these:

42% of rape survivors told no one about the rape. (1)
In a study done in the 1980s, 5% of rape survivors went to the police. (1)

Even ignoring this (it's possible that many told someone who wasn't a police officer), there's another problem: the second study was done, at most, 25 years ago. That's about a generation ago. A study performed during 1993-2001 indicates that the number increased sixfold:

Throughout the last 10 years, the National Crime Victimization Survey has reported that approximately 30% of rape survivors report the incident to the police. (4)
4. Rennison, C. M. "National Crime Victimization Survey, Criminal Victimization 2001: Changes from 2000-2001 with Trends 1993-2001," Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, NCJ 187007, 2002.

Now I guess it's time to disclose my opinion while analyzing the statistics. First, however, note that the most recent statistics are from 2001, while the oldest are from 1981. At least 13 years have passed since the latest study, and 33 since the oldest.

I'm not saying that some rape goes unreported. I believe that, like other crimes, it goes unreported by the victim due to shock and such. This is normal. However, the 99% number I've often heard is ludicrous, if not outright insane (for nowadays). The most recent study places the number at about 70%, which is much lower than 99% or even 95%.
As for the percentage of male rapists, 8% is much higher than the 1/30 (though lower than the 1/3) I've often seen claimed. 99% of rapists being men is in line with what I've heard, though.
The 35% of men claiming some likelihood of rape if they knew they wouldn't get caught, as well as 84% of the aforementioned 8% saying that what they did wasn't rape, and the >20% (one in five) saying that they became too aroused to stop themselves, to me, proves that there's a problem with those men. My (uneducated) guess? No sexual education, which is common in the USA, for some strange and non-fundamentalist reason.
Then there's the "rapists who went to jail" statistic. This one cannot be fully trusted one way or the other (that is, the percentage of actual rapists who go to jail might be higher or lower, though anything less than 100% is unacceptable, IMO) for one simple reason: false reports. Men can and have been sent to jail with no evidence because a woman (falsely) accused them of rape. As usual, the innocent are also the ones who pay for the guilty's crimes.
Now let's move on to the fact that there are two statistics for men being raped, compared to the six for women, which is a blatantly disregard, IMO, for the crime. The worst part isn't even this. It's that there are no statistics for how many went to the police and how many rapists were arrested. My guess is that the former tops at 1%, and the latter at around 0%, but I can't say for sure, since men are apparently incapable of being raped, as believed by so-called "feminazis" and other idiots. Yes, I realize that women get raped far more often. However, at least around 16% of them (assuming every single one of those reports is true) actually get justice. This line here proves, IMO, that the false and widespread belief that men can't be raped is still present (or was present when the article was written) in society:

84% of rape survivors tried unsuccessfully to reason with the man who raped her. (1)

(Bold mine for emphasis)
No mention of women raping men. No mention of women raping women. No mention of men being raped. No mention of anything man-related that doesn't put them as the perpetrators, really. Just a grammatically incorrect sentence (starts with plural nouns, ends with singular pronouns) to emphasize that the only rape survivors are women, and the only perpetrators are men. I once found a news article about a place in the UK, I believe, that tried to get a male rape support group. It didn't go through. Why? Because "men can't get raped". Unfortunately, I've been unable to find this article ever since, since I (dumbly) didn't save the link.


In conclusion:
Yes, most rape goes unreported. Yes, women are the primary targets. Yes, men are the primary perpetrators. However, most of the statistics so often and so casually thrown out are bullshit, plain and simple. The issue only gets worse when people can't tell the difference between feminists and attention whores, which makes them not take real claims seriously. In addition, 8% of false accusations is unacceptable. Men with "accused rapist" (or even "convicted rapist" - assuming they were innocent) in their police record are practically unhirable everywhere, because almost everyone automatically assumes that the accusation was real, and that the men simply managed to "beat the system" or whatever.
Being a minority doesn't make you irrelevant. It's the exact same crime, only the victim's gender is different. This, to me, is akin to black people being lynched and such without anyone caring (sometimes even endorsing), since "they were black". It's akin to homosexuals being killed without anyone caring (often endorsing), since "they were gay". If a black person or homosexual did those things to white people at that time, everyone would lose their shit. Likewise, nowadays, the idea is "rape perpetrators=men and nobody else".
So, yeah, fight against rape and what causes it. I'm with you on that. Just don't pretend that men being raped is somehow less deserving of attention than women being raped just because they're men or because they're the minority cases.

EDIT: Fixed a brain fart.

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15-08-2014, 02:23 AM
RE: What is Rape Culture?
(15-08-2014 02:10 AM)One Above All Wrote:  The first one is that some sort of contradict each other. Specifically these:

42% of rape survivors told no one about the rape. (1)
In a study done in the 1980s, 5% of rape survivors went to the police. (1)

Even ignoring this (it's possible that many told someone who wasn't a police officer)

Isn't that the most obvious thing to conclude when seeing those non-contradictory statistics?

After all, we don't live in a world where absolutely everyone is a police officer.
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15-08-2014, 02:32 AM (This post was last modified: 15-08-2014 03:02 AM by One Above All.)
RE: What is Rape Culture?
(15-08-2014 02:23 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Isn't that the most obvious thing to conclude when seeing those non-contradictory statistics?

After all, we don't live in a world where absolutely everyone is a police officer.

True and true. However, I'd prefer not to make false assumptions (what's obvious is not always true; I'd wager it rarely is, actually), which is why I've kept my mouth shut in this thread (aside from asking questions to get a better idea of what's been going on regarding rape, statistically speaking) until now.
EDIT: I also want to note that I said "sort of" contradicting. If they contradicted each other outright, the "sort of" would have been removed.

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15-08-2014, 10:46 AM
RE: What is Rape Culture?
(15-08-2014 02:10 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(15-08-2014 12:09 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  There are other references on that page. I imagine if you googled some of the terms you should be able to find the studies and see the methodology for yourself, as well as the subject matter of the papers and anything else you care to know.

Thanks.
There are a few problems with the statistics on the first link, however. The first one is that some sort of contradict each other. Specifically these:

42% of rape survivors told no one about the rape. (1)
In a study done in the 1980s, 5% of rape survivors went to the police. (1)

Even ignoring this (it's possible that many told someone who wasn't a police officer), there's another problem: the second study was done, at most, 25 years ago. That's about a generation ago. A study performed during 1993-2001 indicates that the number increased sixfold:

Throughout the last 10 years, the National Crime Victimization Survey has reported that approximately 30% of rape survivors report the incident to the police. (4)
4. Rennison, C. M. "National Crime Victimization Survey, Criminal Victimization 2001: Changes from 2000-2001 with Trends 1993-2001," Washington, D.C.: U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, NCJ 187007, 2002.

Now I guess it's time to disclose my opinion while analyzing the statistics. First, however, note that the most recent statistics are from 2001, while the oldest are from 1981. At least 13 years have passed since the latest study, and 33 since the oldest.

I'm not saying that some rape goes unreported. I believe that, like other crimes, it goes unreported by the victim due to shock and such. This is normal. However, the 99% number I've often heard is ludicrous, if not outright insane (for nowadays). The most recent study places the number at about 70%, which is much lower than 99% or even 95%.
As for the percentage of male rapists, 8% is much higher than the 1/30 (though lower than the 1/3) I've often seen claimed. 99% of rapists being men is in line with what I've heard, though.
The 35% of men claiming some likelihood of rape if they knew they wouldn't get caught, as well as 84% of the aforementioned 8% saying that what they did wasn't rape, and the >20% (one in five) saying that they became too aroused to stop themselves, to me, proves that there's a problem with those men. My (uneducated) guess? No sexual education, which is common in the USA, for some strange and non-fundamentalist reason.
Then there's the "rapists who went to jail" statistic. This one cannot be fully trusted one way or the other (that is, the percentage of actual rapists who go to jail might be higher or lower, though anything less than 100% is unacceptable, IMO) for one simple reason: false reports. Men can and have been sent to jail with no evidence because a woman (falsely) accused them of rape. As usual, the innocent are also the ones who pay for the guilty's crimes.
Now let's move on to the fact that there are two statistics for men being raped, compared to the six for women, which is a blatantly disregard, IMO, for the crime. The worst part isn't even this. It's that there are no statistics for how many went to the police and how many rapists were arrested. My guess is that the former tops at 1%, and the latter at around 0%, but I can't say for sure, since men are apparently incapable of being raped, as believed by so-called "feminazis" and other idiots. Yes, I realize that women get raped far more often. However, at least around 16% of them (assuming every single one of those reports is true) actually get justice. This line here proves, IMO, that the false and widespread belief that men can't be raped is still present (or was present when the article was written) in society:

84% of rape survivors tried unsuccessfully to reason with the man who raped her. (1)

(Bold mine for emphasis)
No mention of women raping men. No mention of women raping women. No mention of men being raped. No mention of anything man-related that doesn't put them as the perpetrators, really. Just a grammatically incorrect sentence (starts with plural nouns, ends with singular pronouns) to emphasize that the only rape survivors are women, and the only perpetrators are men. I once found a news article about a place in the UK, I believe, that tried to get a male rape support group. It didn't go through. Why? Because "men can't get raped". Unfortunately, I've been unable to find this article ever since, since I (dumbly) didn't save the link.


In conclusion:
Yes, most rape goes unreported. Yes, women are the primary targets. Yes, men are the primary perpetrators. However, most of the statistics so often and so casually thrown out are bullshit, plain and simple. The issue only gets worse when people can't tell the difference between feminists and attention whores, which makes them not take real claims seriously. In addition, 8% of false accusations is unacceptable. Men with "accused rapist" (or even "convicted rapist" - assuming they were innocent) in their police record are practically unhirable everywhere, because almost everyone automatically assumes that the accusation was real, and that the men simply managed to "beat the system" or whatever.
Being a minority doesn't make you irrelevant. It's the exact same crime, only the victim's gender is different. This, to me, is akin to black people being lynched and such without anyone caring (sometimes even endorsing), since "they were black". It's akin to homosexuals being killed without anyone caring (often endorsing), since "they were gay". If a black person or homosexual did those things to white people at that time, everyone would lose their shit. Likewise, nowadays, the idea is "rape perpetrators=men and nobody else".
So, yeah, fight against rape and what causes it. I'm with you on that. Just don't pretend that men being raped is somehow less deserving of attention than women being raped just because they're men or because they're the minority cases.

EDIT: Fixed a brain fart.

Most of the stats focus on women, in part because women and in particular feminists have been championing the cause, and in part because women appear to be victims of rape far more often then men do. However, I don't think anyone would suggest that men are less victims when raped than women are, nor that raping males is any less of a problem than raping women.

I do think that male on male rape is very different than male on female rape, as would female on male rape and female on female rape; in so far as we are talking about cultural contributors. It is a complicated and multifaceted topic. I can understand how you might feel that the male side of it doesn't get enough attention.
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15-08-2014, 10:58 AM
RE: What is Rape Culture?
(15-08-2014 10:46 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  However, I don't think anyone would suggest that men are less victims when raped than women are, nor that raping males is any less of a problem than raping women.

Oh, they exist... Google it.

(15-08-2014 10:46 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  I do think that male on male rape is very different than male on female rape, as would female on male rape and female on female rape; in so far as we are talking about cultural contributors. It is a complicated and multifaceted topic. I can understand how you might feel that the male side of it doesn't get enough attention.

Considering that there are hardly any statistics on either males being raped or females raping anyone (compared to the statistics of women being raped by men), I think it's safe to say that it's not a matter of me "feeling" it, but rather a matter of it being that way.

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