What is Science if words have no meaning?
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16-11-2013, 07:53 AM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2013 08:00 AM by Hafnof.)
RE: What is Science if words have no meaning?
What is science but that which allows us to communicate from opposite sides of the planet, feed the hungry, and build space stations?

Science is a pragmatic epistemological system that discards any notion of absolute truth and mucks in to find out what works. It operates as follows:
* Imaginative people come up with ideas called hypotheses, that make specific predictions that are at least in principle able to be tested and proven false. Ideas that make no falsifiable predictions are discarded as not being compatible with the process.
* Different hypotheses whose predictions differ are identified. Tests are performed with a high degree of accuracy and confidence that exclude one or more false hypotheses.
* False hypotheses are ruthlessly discarded or modified.
* Whatever hypotheses remain, those that make unerring predictions, are considered "scientific knowledge". A bias is applied to prefer the simplest hypothesis that that makes unerring predictions within a particular field of study.

No other epistemological system has the record of producing accurate predictions that science has, which is a feat given that you can only really count the history of science as going back about 400 years. Even within the last 100 years our tentative knowledge and our resulting expanded human capability has increased massively.

That said, it isn't without its problems and limitations.
* We may lack the imagination to come up with hypotheses that would advance our scientific knowledge
* We may lack to tools or resources to test hypotheses against each other to exclude false hypotheses
* We may fail to discard or modify false hypotheses due to individual biases

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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16-11-2013, 08:02 AM
RE: What is Science if words have no meaning?
(16-11-2013 07:53 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  What is science but that which allows us to communicate from opposite sides of the planet, feed the hungry, and build space stations?

Science is a pragmatic epistemological system that discards any notion of absolute truth and mucks in to find out what works. It operates as follows:
* Imaginative people come up with ideas called hypotheses, that make specific predictions that are at least in principle able to be tested and proven false. Ideas that make no falsifiable predictions are discarded as not being compatible with the process.
* Different hypotheses whose predictions differ are identified. Tests are performed with a high degree of accuracy and confidence that exclude one or more false hypotheses.
* False hypotheses are ruthlessly discarded or modified.
* Whatever hypotheses remain, those that make unerring predictions, are considered "scientific knowledge". A bias is applied to prefer the simplest hypothesis that that makes unerring predictions within a particular field of study.

No other epistemological system has the record of producing accurate predictions that science has, which is a feat given that you can only really count the history of science as going back about 400 years. Even within the last 100 years our tentative knowledge and our resulting expanded human capability has increased massively.

That said, it isn't without its problems and limitations.
* We may lack the imagination to come up with hypotheses that would advance our scientific knowledge
* We may lack to tools or resources to test hypotheses against each other to exclude false hypotheses
* We may fail to discard or modify false hypotheses due to individual biases

The answer seems good, I need to ponder a bit.

We need new, non numerological and semantic proof if we want a good Scientific Method. Because we have failed to do this, I don't believe in anything I can't see, be it God, Pangaea, evolution or the existence of Australia.
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16-11-2013, 08:23 AM
RE: What is Science if words have no meaning?
Which is ironic, because that's where I'm posting from Wink

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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16-11-2013, 09:36 AM
RE: What is Science if words have no meaning?
(16-11-2013 08:02 AM)KillKillKilltoTheThird Wrote:  We need new, non numerological and semantic proof if we want a good Scientific Method. Because we have failed to do this, I don't believe in anything I can't see, be it God, Pangaea, evolution or the existence of Australia.

Well, that's... an attitude. I guess.

It's insane, but, knock yourself out.

Personally I've found science to be occasionally of some use. But that's just me.

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16-11-2013, 09:38 AM
RE: What is Science if words have no meaning?
(16-11-2013 08:02 AM)KillKillKilltoTheThird Wrote:  We need new, non numerological and semantic proof if we want a good Scientific Method. Because we have failed to do this, I don't believe in anything I can't see, be it God, Pangaea, evolution or the existence of Australia.

What does that even mean? "non numerological"?

We have a good scientific method, Hafnof just clearly explained it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-11-2013, 09:42 AM
RE: What is Science if words have no meaning?
(16-11-2013 08:23 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Which is ironic, because that's where I'm posting from Wink

I don't believe you. Big Grin

Is this guy one o' them "race realists?"

How can "race" have meaning if words and science do not? This is just mindless trolling. Angry

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16-11-2013, 09:59 AM
RE: What is Science if words have no meaning?
(16-11-2013 09:38 AM)Chas Wrote:  What does that even mean? "non numerological"?

We have a good scientific method, Hafnof just clearly explained it.

Oh, sure you'd say that... you're a mathechist. Big Grin We're making up expressions here, right?


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16-11-2013, 02:16 PM
RE: What is Science if words have no meaning?
(16-11-2013 08:02 AM)KillKillKilltoTheThird Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 07:53 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  What is science but that which allows us to communicate from opposite sides of the planet, feed the hungry, and build space stations?

Science is a pragmatic epistemological system that discards any notion of absolute truth and mucks in to find out what works. It operates as follows:
* Imaginative people come up with ideas called hypotheses, that make specific predictions that are at least in principle able to be tested and proven false. Ideas that make no falsifiable predictions are discarded as not being compatible with the process.
* Different hypotheses whose predictions differ are identified. Tests are performed with a high degree of accuracy and confidence that exclude one or more false hypotheses.
* False hypotheses are ruthlessly discarded or modified.
* Whatever hypotheses remain, those that make unerring predictions, are considered "scientific knowledge". A bias is applied to prefer the simplest hypothesis that that makes unerring predictions within a particular field of study.

No other epistemological system has the record of producing accurate predictions that science has, which is a feat given that you can only really count the history of science as going back about 400 years. Even within the last 100 years our tentative knowledge and our resulting expanded human capability has increased massively.

That said, it isn't without its problems and limitations.
* We may lack the imagination to come up with hypotheses that would advance our scientific knowledge
* We may lack to tools or resources to test hypotheses against each other to exclude false hypotheses
* We may fail to discard or modify false hypotheses due to individual biases

The answer seems good, I need to ponder a bit.

We need new, non numerological and semantic proof if we want a good Scientific Method. Because we have failed to do this, I don't believe in anything I can't see, be it God, Pangaea, evolution or the existence of Australia.

Oh I see what you mean, but we'll never have that, the fundamental limit of science is our own ability to perceive the world and to communicate with each other. So you'll never have an external "non-human" point of reference, even if such thing existed.
You'll also need to read more about epistemology, you have a rather linear way of understanding knowledge and that will lead you inevitably to the Münchhausen trilemma . I recommend you read the classics and then move on to newer gnoseology philosophers, I like Edgar Morin and his Complexity Epistemology.

Sorry I can't explain all those things here, they're kind of complicated and require more than just your average internet attention span Tongue

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16-11-2013, 06:06 PM
RE: What is Science if words have no meaning?
(16-11-2013 09:38 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 08:02 AM)KillKillKilltoTheThird Wrote:  We need new, non numerological and semantic proof if we want a good Scientific Method. Because we have failed to do this, I don't believe in anything I can't see, be it God, Pangaea, evolution or the existence of Australia.

What does that even mean? "non numerological"?

We have a good scientific method, Hafnof just clearly explained it.

Apparently Chas has not passed Kindergarten.

Numbers are symbols used to represent quantities, numerology is the use of those numbers to solve equations. I find numerology an unreliable math, as numbers have no meaning.
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16-11-2013, 06:21 PM
RE: What is Science if words have no meaning?
(16-11-2013 02:16 PM)nach_in Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 08:02 AM)KillKillKilltoTheThird Wrote:  The answer seems good, I need to ponder a bit.

We need new, non numerological and semantic proof if we want a good Scientific Method. Because we have failed to do this, I don't believe in anything I can't see, be it God, Pangaea, evolution or the existence of Australia.

Oh I see what you mean, but we'll never have that, the fundamental limit of science is our own ability to perceive the world and to communicate with each other. So you'll never have an external "non-human" point of reference, even if such thing existed.
You'll also need to read more about epistemology, you have a rather linear way of understanding knowledge and that will lead you inevitably to the Münchhausen trilemma . I recommend you read the classics and then move on to newer gnoseology philosophers, I like Edgar Morin and his Complexity Epistemology.

Sorry I can't explain all those things here, they're kind of complicated and require more than just your average internet attention span Tongue

I didn't read the article because it was too long, but I have the gist, so to speak.

Words still have no meaning, though.
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