What is Spirit?
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18-01-2014, 01:39 PM
RE: What is Spirit?
The only spirits that actually exists:

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18-01-2014, 01:45 PM
RE: What is Spirit?
Tao. ... And Gwynnies.

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Wait. That was a rhetorical question.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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18-01-2014, 01:51 PM
RE: What is Spirit?
(18-01-2014 01:22 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Alla - how can you agree consciousness is emergent and not transcendent ?
It is generally a physicalist view and most theists accept a form of dualism and consciousness must be transcendent.
I don't agree with most theists. I agree with Prophets of God.
I don't know much about consciousness but most likely it is not transcendent. Unless we talk figuratively/symbolicly
(18-01-2014 01:22 PM)Baruch Wrote:  There are Christian physicalists such as Nancey Murphy but these are usually from "liberal theology" and not really compatible with Mormonism as far as I can tell.
every theology has parts of the truth. Mormonism or Gospel of Jesus Christ embraces all the truth. It doesn't matter who has it or where it can be found.

English is not my native language.
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18-01-2014, 02:13 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2014 02:32 PM by Luminon.)
RE: What is Spirit?
(18-01-2014 01:18 PM)Baruch Wrote:  You are basically equivocating spirit = energy.
Yes. And I am paralleling with HoC. According to HoC, consciousness is "like a tipping point in deterministic chaos, a product of a self-organizing system. Emergent rather than transcendent."
To me, consciousness is a midway point between energy and matter, where energy can only expresses itself through organization of matter. Which means I basically agree with HoC, consciousness is emergent, but that implies that energy is transcendent.

That being said, is it possible there is a higher or greater consciousness than ours, another tipping point in his terms? Yes, but that would require a different kind of material substrate, a matter of more dimensions than just 3D, or if you want to keep it simple, a matter that is responsive to energy in more ways than just 3. How can we possibly know of such a consciousness? Simply, if we already have it naturally, if this is the source of our consciousness and the biological brain is only its outpost, then we can know it if we follow some technical procedures.

If we refuse any kind of dualism, we must accept that all that is real is of transcendent origin and nature. That which seems non-transcendent is a simulation. And no simulation can exist independently of the source reality. Thus it is possible to contact the source reality, because it is the only reality. Technical processes which constructed this reality can be reversed.
Some sci-fi authors have entertained an idea that if enough people realize that this universe is a simulation, it will be stopped like a computer program. The question is, what does it mean, "realize"? If as an idea within our mind, then we only created another simulation within the simulation, our idea of the universe. To unravel this simulation, we must use the instruments of this simulation. And what are these instruments? Science has some, some are innate. Each of us is potentially a walking corridor out of this simulation. The ultimate simulation's progress is towards integration. The corridor is not to be walked away, it is to be opened and connected. This is the Path, the Tao, a greater progressive integration with the source reality or whatever nearest outpost of it we can find.

If you don't understand that, simply follow that which is truly greater than you. Just make sure you don't follow illusions of greatness, like governments or gurus, that's a beginner mistake. The greatest guru or access to reality is within yourself, within all selves, within all that is real. The greatest mistake of all is to succumb to relativism, to giving up on reality.
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18-01-2014, 02:25 PM
RE: What is Spirit?
(18-01-2014 02:13 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(18-01-2014 01:18 PM)Baruch Wrote:  You are basically equivocating spirit = energy.
Yes. And I am paralleling with HoC. According to HoC, consciousness is "like a tipping point in deterministic chaos, a product of a self-organizing system. Emergent rather than transcendent."
To me, consciousness is a midway point between energy and matter, where energy can only expresses itself through organization of matter. Which means I basically agree with HoC, consciousness is emergent, but that implies that energy is transcendent.

That being said, is it possible there is a higher or greater consciousness than ours, another tipping point in his terms? Yes, but that would require a different kind of material substrate, a matter of more dimensions than just 3D, or if you want to keep it simple, a matter that is responsive to energy in more ways than just 3. How can we possibly know of such a consciousness? Simply, if we already have it naturally, if this is the source of our consciousness and the biological brain is only its outpost, then we can know it if we follow some technical procedures.

If we refuse any kind of dualism, we must accept that all that is real is of transcendent origin and nature. That which seems non-transcendent is a simulation. And no simulation can exist independently of the source reality. Thus it is possible to contact the source reality, because it is the only reality. Technical processes which constructed this reality can be reversed.
Some sci-fi authors have entertained an idea that if enough people realize that this universe is a simulation, it will be stopped like a computer program. The question is, what does it mean, "realize"? If as an idea within our mind, then we only created another simulation within the simulation, our idea of the universe. To unravel this simulation, we must use the instruments of this simulation. And what are these instruments? Science has some, some are innate. Each of us is potentially a walking corridor out of this simulation. The ultimate simulation's progress is towards integration. The corridor is not to be walked away, it is to be opened and connected. This is the Path, the Tao, a greater progressive integration with the source reality or whatever nearest outpost of it we can find.

(18-01-2014 11:45 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Emergent rather than transcendent.

Transcendence is emergent. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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18-01-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: What is Spirit?
As always, let me simplify this;

If some pisses me off, I get the spirit to kick their ass.

That plain enough ? Smartass
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18-01-2014, 02:32 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2014 02:50 PM by Chas.)
RE: What is Spirit?
(18-01-2014 01:03 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Spirit is energy. Everything in the universe is energy in some form, vibrating at some frequency. The universe is a process of converting energy on matter and matter back to energy.
The real question is, what is energy?

My preliminary guess is, energy is fundamentally existence. Which is useful for resolving the paradox of simulated lives or minds. Simulated life is only as real as the amount of energy/matter it contains, which is typically much less than us, biologic people. Which is why we are allowed erase and destroy self-conscious AIs and robots without any qualms. Killing an android is not murder, because it is not killing.

There aren't any self-conscious AIs yet, so there's that. Drinking Beverage


Edit: Or any 'simulated life' either.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-01-2014, 02:36 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2014 05:20 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What is Spirit?
(18-01-2014 02:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  There aren't any self-conscious AIs yet, so there's that. Drinking Beverage


Not yet. .. But we got ideas and shit. ... Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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18-01-2014, 02:36 PM
RE: What is Spirit?
(18-01-2014 02:25 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Transcendence is emergent. Tongue
Emergent out of what? That would lead to infinite regression.

(18-01-2014 02:32 PM)War Horse Wrote:  As always, let me simplify this;

If some pisses me off, I get the spirit to kick their ass.

That plain enough ? Smartass
That is correct, from a teleological point of view.
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18-01-2014, 02:40 PM
RE: What is Spirit?
(18-01-2014 02:25 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Transcendence is emergent. Tongue
Look at your signature. That is so funny as a signature. I was laughing to my tears.
Man, I love your sense of humor.Bowing
Let me check all your posts. I need some good laugh.Big Grin

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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