What is Your Thinking On Abortion ?
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31-03-2014, 03:36 AM
RE: What is Your Thinking On Abortion ?
(31-03-2014 01:11 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(30-03-2014 11:54 PM)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:  I doubt that's the case the moment they became the victim of a rape or some other violent/intrusive act.
Lack of moral belief does not equate to anarchism.
I am against rape and murder because I don't want to be murdered or raped, so I support those laws. Not because it is right or wrong but because it affects my life in strong way.
With my approach I cannot justify interfering in other people's lives if it doesn't impact me. Abortion, prostitution, polygomy etc do not affect me. I am against laws against those things. I do not hold them to be right or wrong. Other people can live their lives as they choose. I am pro-choice (not just abortion but on anything in general). I only interfere when I feel I absolutely must.

So if someone else is getting raped or murdered, or perhaps starving or facing some form of cruel injustice, you just can't be bothered because it doesn't directly affect you. God, if this is the alternative to religious extremism in the world, I hope we keep religious extremism. At least that delusion appears to keep a lot more people from adapting your selfish apathetic attitude.
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31-03-2014, 03:40 AM
RE: What is Your Thinking On Abortion ?
(31-03-2014 03:36 AM)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:  
(31-03-2014 01:11 AM)Stevil Wrote:  Lack of moral belief does not equate to anarchism.
I am against rape and murder because I don't want to be murdered or raped, so I support those laws. Not because it is right or wrong but because it affects my life in strong way.
With my approach I cannot justify interfering in other people's lives if it doesn't impact me. Abortion, prostitution, polygomy etc do not affect me. I am against laws against those things. I do not hold them to be right or wrong. Other people can live their lives as they choose. I am pro-choice (not just abortion but on anything in general). I only interfere when I feel I absolutely must.

So if someone else is getting raped or murdered, or perhaps starving or facing some form of cruel injustice, you just can't be bothered because it doesn't directly affect you. God, if this is the alternative to religious extremism in the world, I hope we keep religious extremism. At least that delusion keeps a lot people from adapting your selfish apathetic attitude.

This is just Stevil...he's him. He has a funny way of saying things like "oh killing actual babies is up for debate"(not an exact quote obviously), that makes you think he's a little fucked up in the head. But mostly I think he's harmless, he's just infected by libertarianism yucky.

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31-03-2014, 03:47 AM
RE: What is Your Thinking On Abortion ?
Well basicaly. If you want abortion to be abolished, show me a viable alternative! One that does not infringe or endanger the life and living quality of a woman in any way shape or form after she finds out that she is unwillingly pregnant.


And send me your home adress if you think abortion should also be illegal in cases of rape. So I can come by for a "friendly" visit.

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31-03-2014, 04:05 AM
RE: What is Your Thinking On Abortion ?
(31-03-2014 03:36 AM)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:  So if someone else is getting raped or murdered, or perhaps starving or facing some form of cruel injustice, you just can't be bothered because it doesn't directly affect you.
No, that's not the case.

I don't think that murder is wrong, I don't think that rape is wrong.
But...
I don't want to be murdered and I don't want to be raped.
So...
I need these things outlawed so that I can live safely within society. I like interacting with others so I recognise the importance of society.
So I want certain rules based on mutual safety.

I don't want justice. I just want to be safe. So if a person is a threat to me and/or my society then I want them dealt with. Not as justice for the crimes they have committed but instead in order to make society safe.

It would be very hypocritical and illogical for me to have a moral belief system, to suggest that it is subjective (i.e. my own personal opinions) and then to demand other people to live according to my subjective morality.
As you pointed out, I am not god. Who am I to judge others? Who am I to tell people what they can and can't do? Who am I to demand justice?

In my opinion the government are merely an extension of myself. Then if I outlaw abortion it is as if the police force are my personal henchmen, sent by me to interfere in some pregnant woman's life, to use force and violence to stop her doing something merely because I don't like it.
How do I justify interfering in this woman's life?
I can't claim to be doing it as a moral obligation, because there is no objective morality. I am not the definer and enforcer of some moral standard. Subjective morality is merely personal opinion. I refuse to support government forcing personal opinions onto other people, especially via use of violence via the police force.

In my view the government is here to make society safe and stable. NOT to force someone's personal moral opinions onto us. We are adults, not little children. If a grown woman wants to have an abortion then it is her decision not government. If a grown woman wants to earn money by sell sex then it is her decision. If gay people want to get married then it is their decision. People can make their own life choices they don't need my approval, the don't need a government to steer them down the righteous path.

(31-03-2014 03:36 AM)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:  God, if this is the alternative to religious extremism in the world, I hope we keep religious extremism.
So be it. If you don't like grown adults living their own lives, if you would rather government force someone's personal moral beliefs onto you and the rest of society then so be it.
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31-03-2014, 04:34 AM
RE: What is Your Thinking On Abortion ?
(31-03-2014 03:40 AM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  But mostly I think he's harmless, he's just infected by libertarianism yucky.

That explains a lot actually.
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31-03-2014, 10:15 AM
RE: What is Your Thinking On Abortion ?
(30-03-2014 10:46 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(30-03-2014 09:49 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I can't decide who creeps me out more you or OP.
It never ever makes sense to kill a baby. Never.
I was in particular, talking about unborn babies.
In my opinion after birth would be up for debate.

That debate is over.

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31-03-2014, 10:20 AM
RE: What is Your Thinking On Abortion ?
(31-03-2014 04:05 AM)Stevil Wrote:  So be it. If you don't like grown adults living their own lives, if you would rather government force someone's personal moral beliefs onto you and the rest of society then so be it.

Libertarian fanbois are tiresome.
Who do you think is "the government"? Don't you understand that we the people need to negotiate and decide things for a functional society.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-03-2014, 10:23 AM
RE: What is Your Thinking On Abortion ?
(30-03-2014 09:58 PM)chandlerklebs Wrote:  I really find it weird that people act as if a fetus and a baby are different things. One does not simply become a baby at birth. If a fetus is just a clump of cells as some say, then I am just a larger clump of cells or a giant baby.

You are not a clump of cells, you have a brain and a nervous system. A fetus does not until almost six months into gestation.

So, yes, there is a clear difference between a fetus and a baby.

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31-03-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: What is Your Thinking On Abortion ?
Everyday I thank NotGod for Chas.


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31-03-2014, 12:06 PM
RE: What is Your Thinking On Abortion ?
(31-03-2014 10:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-03-2014 10:46 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I was in particular, talking about unborn babies.
In my opinion after birth would be up for debate.

That debate is over.
for closeminded people the debate never began.
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