What is a number?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
18-08-2016, 04:42 PM
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 04:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 04:32 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  So when one leaves the USA there are no longer miles, but kilometers? No gallons only liters? ETC.....

Not when we leave the USA, when we cease to exist. And then yes, there are no longer miles, kilometers, gallons or liters.

Now you sound like some New Age preacher talking about that each person creates his reality. I am sure that in another 50 years I will no longer exist, now being 70+ years old, but i expect there will still be miles or kilometers for those left to use at will.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2016, 04:44 PM
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 04:40 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  Or if you'll excuse a third post in a row. The first college level math course I took assured us that 1+1 may not always =2.

You were taught correctly. 1+1 can very well equal 10. And we wouldn't be talking if it couldn't. Big Grin

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
18-08-2016, 04:50 PM
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 04:42 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 04:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Not when we leave the USA, when we cease to exist. And then yes, there are no longer miles, kilometers, gallons or liters.

Now you sound like some New Age preacher talking about that each person creates his reality. I am sure that in another 50 years I will no longer exist, now being 70+ years old, but i expect there will still be miles or kilometers for those left to use at will.

It's not woo. The question was not about our individual existence. The premise was that all sentient beings ceased to exist. There is nobody left to use miles or kilometers at will. When we collectively cease to exist they cease to exist.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2016, 05:01 PM
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 04:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 04:32 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  So when one leaves the USA there are no longer miles, but kilometers? No gallons only liters? ETC.....

Not when we leave the USA, when we cease to exist. And then yes, there are no longer miles, kilometers, gallons or liters.

But the volumes we "counted" and described would still exist, (and the relationships they have to each other still exist), which is really what our numbers are describing.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2016, 05:03 PM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 05:07 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 05:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 04:35 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Not when we leave the USA, when we cease to exist. And then yes, there are no longer miles, kilometers, gallons or liters.

But the volumes we "counted" and described would still exist, (and the relationships they have to each other still exist), which is really what our numbers are describing.

I would contend that "volume" ceases to exist. But we are talking about numbers here, not what they measure.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2016, 05:41 PM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 05:48 PM by SYZ.)
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 04:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I think that if we ceased to exist there would be no such things as "square" and "circle". They are artificial constructions of our own creation.

I have to disagree that they're "artificial" constructs. There are numerous examples in nature of perfect geometric shapes. How you define them is if course our human definition, but they still exist nonetheless. Therefore yours is more a question about semantics rather than mathematics.

[Image: beryl-2.gif]
Beryl molecule


[Image: x3-section-natural-nautilus.jpg.pagespee...KVeqIU.jpg]
NautilusCutaway - LogarithmicSpiral



[Image: Aragonite-Fluorite-cflu02c.jpg]
Aragonite-Fluorite crystal



[Image: b483f957eb95eb9943cdd5d4c407ea3e.jpg]
Dahlia flower



[Image: 14-beehive_tn.jpg]
Honeycomb

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2016, 06:10 PM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 06:16 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 05:41 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 04:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I think that if we ceased to exist there would be no such things as "square" and "circle". They are artificial constructions of our own creation.

I have to disagree that they're "artificial" constructs. There are numerous examples in nature of perfect geometric shapes. How you define them is if course our human definition, but they still exist nonetheless.

If all sentient beings ceased to exist who would be left to recognize these patterns? I contend that without an intelligence capable of recognizing patterns, there is no such thing as a pattern or a perfect geometric shape or any sort of geometric shape or even geometry at all.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes GirlyMan's post
18-08-2016, 06:50 PM
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 06:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 05:41 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I have to disagree that they're "artificial" constructs. There are numerous examples in nature of perfect geometric shapes. How you define them is if course our human definition, but they still exist nonetheless.

If all sentient beings ceased to exist who would be left to recognize these patterns? I contend that without an intelligence capable of recognizing patterns, there is no such thing as a pattern or a perfect geometric shape or any sort of geometric shape or even geometry at all.

Seems a bit solipsistic, but you could be right. Then again, we need to consider where sentience begins. I contend, in the case of bees, there must be something there, for the communication of far resources to be communicated to the rest of the hive. At that point though, sentience may not be the appropriate word.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Fireball's post
18-08-2016, 07:11 PM
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 06:50 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 06:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  If all sentient beings ceased to exist who would be left to recognize these patterns? I contend that without an intelligence capable of recognizing patterns, there is no such thing as a pattern or a perfect geometric shape or any sort of geometric shape or even geometry at all.

Seems a bit solipsistic, but you could be right. Then again, we need to consider where sentience begins. I contend, in the case of bees, there must be something there, for the communication of far resources to be communicated to the rest of the hive. At that point though, sentience may not be the appropriate word.

Is that sentient or not?

Collectively the hive appears to behave as if it was sentient even though no individual is. And collectively it knows how to construct the hive in the mathematically most efficient manner. I am a collection of gazillions of different organisms and processes which occasionally appears sentient too. I give Thumbsup to beehives being sentient. And ant and termite colonies. Of course the concept of sentience also disappears with us.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2016, 07:37 PM
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 06:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 05:41 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I have to disagree that they're "artificial" constructs. There are numerous examples in nature of perfect geometric shapes. How you define them is if course our human definition, but they still exist nonetheless.

If all sentient beings ceased to exist who would be left to recognize these patterns? I contend that without an intelligence capable of recognizing patterns, there is no such thing as a pattern or a perfect geometric shape or any sort of geometric shape or even geometry at all.

The patterns (relationships) exist whether a sentient being is there to see them or not. We call them "patterns" but the relationships (what we discovered to be describable by equations) exist.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: