What is a number?
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18-08-2016, 08:41 PM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 08:53 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 07:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The patterns (relationships) exist whether a sentient being is there to see them or not. We call them "patterns" but the relationships (what we discovered to be describable by equations) exist.

Why are you so certain of that? I'm not.

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18-08-2016, 09:00 PM
RE: What is a number?
OK, I just got off the phone with my middle son, after a 40 minute phone call. He has the same cold I have, more's the pity. Anyway, I think it is a little anthropocentric to say that a form depends on human sentience for it's perception and interpretation. The logarithmic spiral that describes the chambered nautilis' form was discovered and described by humankind, but existed for Megayears prior to our existence.
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18-08-2016, 09:02 PM
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 08:41 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 07:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The patterns (relationships) exist whether a sentient being is there to see them or not. We call them "patterns" but the relationships (what we discovered to be describable by equations) exist.

Why are you so certain of that? I'm not.

See post above. Tongue The Fibonacci sequence describes it, but "it" is there, described or not.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-08-2016, 09:12 PM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 09:19 PM by GoingUp.)
RE: What is a number?
(11-08-2016 02:42 PM)Dworkin Wrote:  Hi,

This is one of those questions that takes us to the boundaries of reasoning.

https://welovephilosophy.com/2012/12/17/...ers-exist/

The link is an intro, but there is plenty of argument out there. What's your view?

D.

The moment something is created, it exists? Every thought you have is real? Every concept you can imagine, is in fact a reality?

We have become complacent in our definition of reality whereas we communally agree that reality is best defined by that which can be detected communally.

But what if reality were to be described as an existence in which it is determined to be anything that can influence the individual or the community?

Who makes the rules here? Me? You? We?

Who?

If you have a nightmare, and you wake up in a cold sweat, how can it be that the object of your nightmare did not exist? If it had no existence, how could it influence you into a nightmare?

Therefore, it existed? Yes? No? Maybe?

What a massive can of worms this is! For if reality were to be determined as being that which has influence on our physical reality then wow ...

Does God exist?

Consider
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18-08-2016, 09:15 PM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 09:27 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 09:00 PM)Fireball Wrote:  OK, I just got off the phone with my middle son, after a 40 minute phone call. He has the same cold I have, more's the pity. Anyway, I think it is a little anthropocentric to say that a form depends on human sentience for it's perception and interpretation. The logarithmic spiral that describes the chambered nautilis' form was discovered and described by humankind, but existed for Megayears prior to our existence.

Without Fibonacci there is no logarithmic spiral. It never existed before Fibonacci. That's what I'm saying. There was something there but it wasn't a logarithmic spiral.... to be fair I am batshit insane and may be a little tipsy.

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18-08-2016, 09:28 PM
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 09:12 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  Does God exist?

Check my avatar.

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18-08-2016, 09:35 PM
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 09:15 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 09:00 PM)Fireball Wrote:  OK, I just got off the phone with my middle son, after a 40 minute phone call. He has the same cold I have, more's the pity. Anyway, I think it is a little anthropocentric to say that a form depends on human sentience for it's perception and interpretation. The logarithmic spiral that describes the chambered nautilis' form was discovered and described by humankind, but existed for Megayears prior to our existence.

Without Fibonacci there is no logarithmic spiral. It never existed before Fibonacci. That's what I'm saying. There was something there but it wasn't a logarithmic spiral.... to be fair I am batshit insane and may be a little tipsy.

There is a spiral.
Some sentient beings figured out a way to describe it using a system called math.
The order that eventually produced the brains that describe it existed before the brains had it figured out.

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18-08-2016, 09:38 PM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 09:46 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 09:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 09:15 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Without Fibonacci there is no logarithmic spiral. It never existed before Fibonacci. That's what I'm saying. There was something there but it wasn't a logarithmic spiral.... to be fair I am batshit insane and may be a little tipsy.

There is a spiral.
Some sentient beings figured out a way to describe it using a system called math.
The order that eventually produced the brains that describe it existed before the brains had it figured out.

hmmm .... Consider ... don't think I'd stipulate to that.

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18-08-2016, 10:10 PM
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 09:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 09:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is a spiral.
Some sentient beings figured out a way to describe it using a system called math.
The order that eventually produced the brains that describe it existed before the brains had it figured out.

hmmm .... Consider ... don't think I'd stipulate to that.

Bolding mine. I would. Further, I would say that the entirety of mathematics is bound up in the structure of the universe, and further, that the description of the universe using mathematics doesn't necessarily depend on human sentience. Whatever human sentience actually is. Of course, I'm sick with a cold and blowing yellow chunks out of my trachea (and listening to Black Sabbath), so what would I know? I'll hopefully wake up with no fever tomorrow and regret this whole exchange. I haven't been this sick in at least five years. Censored
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18-08-2016, 11:15 PM
RE: What is a number?
(18-08-2016 10:10 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(18-08-2016 09:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  hmmm .... Consider ... don't think I'd stipulate to that.

Bolding mine. I would. Further, I would say that the entirety of mathematics is bound up in the structure of the universe, and further, that the description of the universe using mathematics doesn't necessarily depend on human sentience. Whatever human sentience actually is. Of course, I'm sick with a cold and blowing yellow chunks out of my trachea (and listening to Black Sabbath), so what would I know? I'll hopefully wake up with no fever tomorrow and regret this whole exchange. I haven't been this sick in at least five years. Censored




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