What is a proof?
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19-08-2014, 07:01 AM
What is a proof?
This is an educational thread where we read, link and discuss acceptable theories and concepts regarding Logic, Proofs and science

What is intelligence?
What is logic?
What are the types of proofs?
Scientific Vs. Logical proofs
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19-08-2014, 07:05 AM
RE: What is a proof?
(19-08-2014 07:01 AM)Muslim Wrote:  This is an educational thread where we read, link and discuss acceptable theories and concepts regarding Logic, Proofs and science

What is intelligence?
What is logic?
What are the types of proofs?
Scientific Vs. Logical proofs

How about evidence? Drinking Beverage

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19-08-2014, 07:10 AM
RE: What is a proof?
(19-08-2014 07:01 AM)Muslim Wrote:  This is an educational thread where we read, link and discuss acceptable theories and concepts regarding Logic, Proofs and science

What is intelligence?
What is logic?
What are the types of proofs?
Scientific Vs. Logical proofs

It is when you set up a system with standards and control groups and independent peer review. Quality control. You plug a claim into the established formula, test it with control groups, take your findings, hand them over to others in your field who have no horse in the race and see if they come up with the same data. If they do, you are onto something, if they don't, then you rethink your claim and set up and data.

Scientific method is not a person, it is a system. When used properly it is a way to filter out personal bias and settle competing claims. Ethical scientists love to be proven wrong and do not look at is bad to be wrong, they look at it as a learning experience.

Proof that god claims exists only means humans claim them. Proof that religion exists only proves people like them. They do not have the same universal testing and quality control scientific method does. Religion and god belief simply amounts to "It feels good, other people like it, my false perceptions allow me to swallow it".

Religion and god belief will never hold a candle to the knowledge scientific method has given humanity.

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19-08-2014, 07:22 AM
RE: What is a proof?
(19-08-2014 07:05 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 07:01 AM)Muslim Wrote:  This is an educational thread where we read, link and discuss acceptable theories and concepts regarding Logic, Proofs and science

What is intelligence?
What is logic?
What are the types of proofs?
Scientific Vs. Logical proofs

How about evidence? Drinking Beverage
Evidences are often used in science not Logic

Usually science is based on observations which can be considered as evidences if strong enough
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19-08-2014, 07:28 AM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2014 11:41 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: What is a proof?
(19-08-2014 07:22 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 07:05 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  How about evidence? Drinking Beverage
Evidences are often used in science not Logic

Usually science is based on observations which can be considered as evidences if strong enough

Problem: You cannot logic a god into existence, you still need evidence to support it.

Logic is, by itself, insufficient for meeting the burden of proof required of theists and their gods.

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19-08-2014, 07:45 AM
RE: What is a proof?
(19-08-2014 07:01 AM)Muslim Wrote:  What is intelligence?

A good working definition:

The ability to adapt to an unknown environment.

('Environment' used in its loosest sense to include any situation. In other words, the agent needs to learn which actions will provide greatest utility given its current perceptions)
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19-08-2014, 07:49 AM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2014 04:47 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: What is a proof?
(19-08-2014 07:22 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(19-08-2014 07:05 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  How about evidence? Drinking Beverage
Evidences are often used in science not Logic

Usually science is based on observations which can be considered as evidences if strong enough

A posit made outside of a scientific method produced item is subjective and brings philosophical views into play which in the end are....subjective. Like pre-conditions to intelligibility, first causal argument, sentience/consciousness, argument from personal experience...these are things that are not testable as they fall into philosophy and transcendental belief systems...not the real world which we live in, but interesting fodder for those who like to daydream about all of the wonderful possibilities of "wouldn't it be cool if a super genie made the universe type" musings..

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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19-08-2014, 07:53 AM
RE: What is a proof?
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19-08-2014, 08:03 AM
RE: What is a proof?
(19-08-2014 07:01 AM)Muslim Wrote:  What is logic?

Logic is a conceptual tool invented and used by humans which allows them to reason about the world in order to better understand it and predict events. Logic uses the values of True and False which do not exist in the real world. Fuzzy logic for example is an alternative conceptual tool using degrees of truth and falseness.

In the same way maths has the integer values 0, 1, 2 etc. These symbols only represent states of the real world.

If you wiped out the human race then logic and maths would no longer exist.

There are environments and situations in the real world which cannot be adequately described by our current systems of logic and maths and which either require alternative tools or extensions to our existing tools instead. For example, emergent systems, the singularity of a black hole etc.

The limitations of maths and logic is evident by the number of different forms developed to overcome specific limitations. For example geometry, statistics, Bayesian inference, fuzzy logic, cellular automata, the theory of computation etc.
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19-08-2014, 08:08 AM
RE: What is a proof?
(19-08-2014 07:01 AM)Muslim Wrote:  This is an educational thread where we read, link and discuss acceptable theories and concepts regarding Logic, Proofs and science

Are we supposed to be educating you or are you supposed to be educating us or are we both educating lurkers who are reading this thread?

If you are intending to educate us, was this sentence deliberately meant to be patronising or is it something that you truly believe even though you do not know anyone here or what their backgrounds are?
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