What is a proof?
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24-08-2014, 08:24 PM
RE: What is a proof?
(24-08-2014 07:30 AM)Muslim Wrote:  As Islam is the true religion...

Unsupported assertion. From what I can see, the quality of life in officially Muslim nations is absolutely hideous. With all the atrocities committed in the name of your religion, you might as well be worshipping a demon instead.

Quote:Rejecting God after knowing him, is the biggest crime you can make ...

Has anyone actually known your god? I think you're all imagining it. Every last one of you, without a single exception.

Quote:... so you will be punished by death.

Is your god so pathetically weak that it needs humans to do its dirty work? Interesting that you never, ever see Allah smiting someone, only a bunch of sex-starved young men worked up into a mad frenzy by rhetoric.

What the Islamic world needs to do is drop the death penalty for apostasy or different belief, and encourage safe sex among willing young people. The violence level would drop overnight, literally.
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25-08-2014, 12:23 AM
RE: What is a proof?
(24-08-2014 07:30 AM)Muslim Wrote:  It is the same like removing a tumor from your brain if it is going to affect vital organs!

As Islam is the true religion
Rejecting God after knowing him, is the biggest crime you can make
so you will be punished by death (Like most countries punish on great treason)
another reason is that you can affect other people, so it is better to eliminate him before bringing more people to hell

Maybe you don't like the answer,
But if you assume that Islam is the right religion, then it makes sense
because the probability of more people going to hell is actually reduced by this killing, which is good

You're a cunt! Thumbsup
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25-08-2014, 05:09 AM
RE: What is a proof?
Has muslim run away ? Hit and run ?
....and I was just starting.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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25-08-2014, 05:11 AM
RE: What is a proof?
They are sporadically posting in other threads. I am hoping for domthing worthwhile to turn up here. Besides some of the awesome posts by others here so far. Smile

Much cheers to all
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25-08-2014, 06:01 AM
RE: What is a proof?
Are the Sunnis correct, or are Shia correct? Which group "knows" Allah?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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26-08-2014, 03:07 PM (This post was last modified: 26-08-2014 03:10 PM by Mathilda.)
RE: What is a proof?
(24-08-2014 07:21 AM)Muslim Wrote:  
(23-08-2014 09:29 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  It even has a physical existence if you count the magnetic bits on people's hard drives and patterns of electrical charge in RAM and neurons.
Those also are not real, it is our knowledge which is limited about the subject


So magnetic bits on hard drives and electrical patterns of charge in RAM and neurons don't exist?

How are we managing to communicate on this forum?


(24-08-2014 07:21 AM)Muslim Wrote:  As I said, logic is not enough to describe the world
when I say, how our brain work, I mean function not how it work internally

Wrong.

If our brains functioned using logic then we would be able to recreate that functionality using logic on a computer.

We can't.
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26-08-2014, 03:30 PM (This post was last modified: 26-08-2014 03:33 PM by Mathilda.)
RE: What is a proof?
(24-08-2014 12:39 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Not necessarily true Matilda - logic may describe all the above but we are just limited by the complexity eg there is research now mapping how memory & pattern matching occur using logical methodologies & understanding.
In fact there is no other way other than using logic. However with extremely complex phenomena we sometimes approximate or use statistical averages rather than working out the entire logical sequences - saves time and actually unnecessary in some cases. Eg I dont need to know the quantum effects when designing a ship but do need to know hydraulics & classical physics and this does the Job well. The classical physics may be approximate and not follow some absolute logic - but its just fine for our needs. However just because you dont know all the theoretical logic it does not mean "no logic" exists.

Well I did say "logic certainly does not adequately describe" and "Nor is logic useful in describing". You could say the same thing about describing the different neural functions of the brain through the medium of dance. My stance is that logic is merely a language and that we need to find the best language for the task at hand.

Neurons may have thresholds and binary spikes, but as Muslim would say, this is the level at which they work internally. It becomes less useful to use logic when describing spike train firing rates for example.

One thing is certain, the brain self organises and that means it is constantly settling into stable or meta-stable states or being disturbed out of them. This then suggests to me that non-equilibrium thermodynamics are a more useful way to describe the higher level functions of the brain. Although the current fashion is to think in terms of information theory.
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27-08-2014, 01:49 PM
RE: What is a proof?
(24-08-2014 01:28 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Secondly: If these "laws" that created the universe are based on logic as you describe it then the laws of logic would be eternal & not created. So God cannot "create" logic - that is incoherent.
Here you consider "logic" as a thing to be created
logic is a characteristic of the Universe and God altogether
Quote:....and if you so strongly believe in logic then the metaphysics I am describing is extremely powerful precisely because it relies on the laws of identity and contradiction as fundamental axioms.
Metaphysics simply means adherence to Logic because it searches for explanations and causes

Quote:.......and what does the Quran have ?
Incoherence.(there are contradictions, creation Ex-Nihilo for one)
You need to debate this in a different thread

Quote:No Foundation. (well, flimsy foundation as we are supposed to believe whatever Mohammed said)
No Explanatory power.(God did it ! - that's not explanatory power, for real explanatory power see the lecture by David Deutsch)
No Empirical Evidence.(well, extremely limited here say)
No Rational or logical Evidence. (at best weak and speculative)
This can be refuted easily
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27-08-2014, 02:06 PM
RE: What is a proof?
(27-08-2014 01:49 PM)Muslim Wrote:  
(24-08-2014 01:28 PM)Baruch Wrote:  Secondly: If these "laws" that created the universe are based on logic as you describe it then the laws of logic would be eternal & not created. So God cannot "create" logic - that is incoherent.
Here you consider "logic" as a thing to be created
logic is a characteristic of the Universe and God altogether
Quote:....and if you so strongly believe in logic then the metaphysics I am describing is extremely powerful precisely because it relies on the laws of identity and contradiction as fundamental axioms.
Metaphysics simply means adherence to Logic because it searches for explanations and causes

Quote:.......and what does the Quran have ?
Incoherence.(there are contradictions, creation Ex-Nihilo for one)
You need to debate this in a different thread

Quote:No Foundation. (well, flimsy foundation as we are supposed to believe whatever Mohammed said)
No Explanatory power.(God did it ! - that's not explanatory power, for real explanatory power see the lecture by David Deutsch)
No Empirical Evidence.(well, extremely limited here say)
No Rational or logical Evidence. (at best weak and speculative)
This can be refuted easily

Your entire faith can be refuted easily.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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27-08-2014, 02:36 PM
RE: What is a proof?
(27-08-2014 01:49 PM)Muslim Wrote:  logic is a characteristic of the Universe

No it isn't.

There is absolutely no reason to think that.
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