What is faith?
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11-02-2013, 01:51 PM
RE: What is faith?
(11-02-2013 01:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The Bible is inerrant and looking at in Greek and Hebrew, and in the historical context, sure helps!
Matthew 21: You omitted the context of faith of a mustard seed. Context.
Matthew 14: Peter had just seen thousands fed. His trust was just an unfortunate little. Context.
Hebrews 11: The versions I've quoted here say "faith is the evidence of something [yet] unseen. Context.
2 Cor 5: We trust God for the unseen future, not we trust Him blindly despite the present circumstances. Context.
1 Cor 16: Be on your guard against anti-Christian doctrines, against the Christian faith, not an individual's trust. Context.
1 Cor 2: Trust what you know from your experience of God's power, not the "wisdom" of the men of the age, e.g. this forum! Context.
I feel I must remind everyone here that Satan brought Jesus verses pulled from their context in temptation... I apologize, but it is a failure of Western Christianity that churches likewise pull verses like little tidbits of wisdom out of context. But for anyone here who deconverted, it's just not that surprising that you did if you're pulling sentences out of context.
It's like saying that two Psalms tell us there is no God, when they say in context, "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
Context, you keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. Case and point,
"Hebrews 11: The versions I've quoted here say "faith is the evidence of something [yet] unseen. Context."

How does the context of the bible before and after these verses change any of their meanings? Christians always jump to context, but never explain how it matters. Or are you going to the dodge of "you aren't a christian, so you wouldn't understand?"

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11-02-2013, 02:18 PM
RE: What is faith?
(11-02-2013 01:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The Bible is inerrant [...]
Thank you for finally answering my question. In that case, I really am done here.
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11-02-2013, 02:24 PM
RE: What is faith?
Um, I cited a brief version of the real context for EACH of the verses you took from its correct context. Let me help you, e.g., the context of Hebrews 11:1 is the end of Hebrews 10:
You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For, “In just a little while,
he who is coming will come
and will not delay.” 38 And, “But my righteous one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.”
39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

Therefore, Hebrews 11:1 is reminding Christians to trust God for an uncertain future, not blindly believe something about the present that contradicts present circumstances.
Almost 100% of the Bible issues I've been presented are single verses and snips, and almost 100% of those "issues" are solved looking at the immediate context.
And I would NEVER say a non-Christian cannot understand what context is or how it applies. Again, the Bible says there is no God... and it is quoting Atheists where it says so, in context...
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11-02-2013, 02:27 PM
RE: What is faith?
None of your additions makes the context of those passages imply anything other than believe for the sake of believing. They give no rational reasoning or evidence for belief. Only more things to take on faith. It's circular reasoning when taken "in context" and adds no validity to your claim.

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11-02-2013, 02:40 PM
RE: What is faith?
(11-02-2013 02:27 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  None of your additions makes the context of those passages imply anything other than believe for the sake of believing. They give no rational reasoning or evidence for belief. Only more things to take on faith. It's circular reasoning when taken "in context" and adds no validity to your claim.
I never said they did! I was responding to your response to my question, which was to take verses and "interpret" them with the worst Hermenutics possible. I was also using Hebrews 11 to define Christian faith as reasonable trust, regardless of whether we want to debate whether the underlying whatevers are reasonable.
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11-02-2013, 02:44 PM
RE: What is faith?
(11-02-2013 02:18 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(11-02-2013 01:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The Bible is inerrant [...]
Thank you for finally answering my question. In that case, I really am done here.
If we're done, it's due to your lack of due diligence, my friend. My due diligence informs me that there is not ONE Bible "contradiction" that doesn't have a simple, plausible response, if we're talking about textual "difficulties" and not "Does God exist?" or whatever nonsense you're pushing.
Please don't be a defense attorney or a prosecutor, because a vague, sugary coating is all the depth you're interested in. I see plainly how someone like you (or me!) can say, "Throw out the Bible if you can't answer these contradictions." Most of the ones I've been presented I thought about to solve on my own, that simply. I have little patience for the typical Atheist BS y'all pull from Internet pages that take EVERYTHING from its correct context. Try something new.
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11-02-2013, 02:45 PM
RE: What is faith?
(11-02-2013 02:40 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(11-02-2013 02:27 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  None of your additions makes the context of those passages imply anything other than believe for the sake of believing. They give no rational reasoning or evidence for belief. Only more things to take on faith. It's circular reasoning when taken "in context" and adds no validity to your claim.
I never said they did! I was responding to your response to my question, which was to take verses and "interpret" them with the worst Hermenutics possible. I was also using Hebrews 11 to define Christian faith as reasonable trust, regardless of whether we want to debate whether the underlying whatevers are reasonable.

Hebrews 11
New International Version (NIV)
Faith in Action
11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.




How is that reasoned trust? It is the same thing as all of the others. It is believe for the future because it is what you want and don't look for evidence.


So you concede to the point that there exist plenty of verses in the bible that promote belief without reason, evidence, or logic then?

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11-02-2013, 02:46 PM
RE: What is faith?
It is trust out of fear

or trust out of want/desire

Not reason.

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11-02-2013, 03:11 PM
RE: What is faith?
(11-02-2013 02:45 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(11-02-2013 02:40 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I never said they did! I was responding to your response to my question, which was to take verses and "interpret" them with the worst Hermenutics possible. I was also using Hebrews 11 to define Christian faith as reasonable trust, regardless of whether we want to debate whether the underlying whatevers are reasonable.

Hebrews 11
New International Version (NIV)
Faith in Action
11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.




How is that reasoned trust? It is the same thing as all of the others. It is believe for the future because it is what you want and don't look for evidence.


So you concede to the point that there exist plenty of verses in the bible that promote belief without reason, evidence, or logic then?
I will not concede ANY point that takes select verses and wrenches them from their context. A Psalm, i.e., that says, "Trust the Lord" likely says in nearby verses, "For the good things He has done, for His blessings in your life, for His rescues from your trials, etc." and if you switch GOD for a friend or a parent, you have REASONS to trust, not blindly trust a trustworthy person. You are firming my point about looking at the Bible (and all fictional or real books) in context.
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11-02-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: What is faith?
(11-02-2013 02:46 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It is trust out of fear

or trust out of want/desire

Not reason.
Sure, maybe the first time! Then it is a trust out of experience. A reasoned or reasonable experience. My public oratory, my life skills, my counseling to others, my rhetoric, my job experience, my knowledge, etc. is greatly benefited from my MANY positive experiences trusting the Lord. I want to excel, I want to achieve, sure. Do you? Of course you do. You seem like a normal person.
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