What is faith?
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11-02-2013, 03:19 PM
RE: What is faith?
(11-02-2013 03:13 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(11-02-2013 02:46 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It is trust out of fear

or trust out of want/desire

Not reason.
Sure, maybe the first time! Then it is a trust out of experience. A reasoned or reasonable experience. My public oratory, my life skills, my counseling to others, my rhetoric, my job experience, my knowledge, etc. is greatly benefited from my MANY positive experiences trusting the Lord. I want to excel, I want to achieve, sure. Do you? Of course you do. You seem like a normal person.


How, exactly, have you benefited? How does that work?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-02-2013, 03:21 PM
RE: What is faith?
(11-02-2013 03:11 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(11-02-2013 02:45 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Hebrews 11
New International Version (NIV)
Faith in Action
11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.




How is that reasoned trust? It is the same thing as all of the others. It is believe for the future because it is what you want and don't look for evidence.


So you concede to the point that there exist plenty of verses in the bible that promote belief without reason, evidence, or logic then?
I will not concede ANY point that takes select verses and wrenches them from their context. A Psalm, i.e., that says, "Trust the Lord" likely says in nearby verses, "For the good things He has done, for His blessings in your life, for His rescues from your trials, etc." and if you switch GOD for a friend or a parent, you have REASONS to trust, not blindly trust a trustworthy person. You are firming my point about looking at the Bible (and all fictional or real books) in context.


And I will not concede any point that uses Bible verses as evidence of anything except that they're in the Bible.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-02-2013, 06:20 PM
Re: What is faith?
If true the first time, then true always. Fear causes you to believe, and brainwashing and self-fulfilling circular reasoning keep you believing.

And you asked for verses that showed faith to be a blind process. I gave them. Then you claim context. I point out the flaw. You concede it does not bolster your claim. Then you say you did not do that. Do you read what you post?

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11-02-2013, 08:49 PM
RE: What is faith?
Whenever I see, or hear the word "faith" in the theist context, I immediately replace it with "willful ignorance". There are different types of faith, the calculated guess, or maybe mislabeling hope. It's a misguided hope, one wrought with peripheral suffering.

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12-02-2013, 08:10 AM
RE: What is faith?
Quote:Whenever I see, or hear the word "faith" in the theist context, I immediately replace it with "willful ignorance". There are different types of faith, the calculated guess, or maybe mislabeling hope. It's a misguided hope, one wrought with peripheral suffering.
And what do you consider Christians think about Atheist hopes? We call it willful ignorance, a calculated guess, and a hope without any redemption in the next world...
Y'all can't even agree on whether there is no God, or whether there is no evidence for a God.
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12-02-2013, 08:12 AM
RE: What is faith?
(12-02-2013 08:10 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Whenever I see, or hear the word "faith" in the theist context, I immediately replace it with "willful ignorance". There are different types of faith, the calculated guess, or maybe mislabeling hope. It's a misguided hope, one wrought with peripheral suffering.
And what do you consider Christians think about Atheist hopes? We call it willful ignorance, a calculated guess, and a hope without any redemption in the next world...
Y'all can't even agree on whether there is no God, or whether there is no evidence for a God.

I'm pretty sure we agree that there is no evidence of any gods and that it is extremely unlikely that there are any.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-02-2013, 09:44 AM
RE: What is faith?
(12-02-2013 08:10 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Whenever I see, or hear the word "faith" in the theist context, I immediately replace it with "willful ignorance". There are different types of faith, the calculated guess, or maybe mislabeling hope. It's a misguided hope, one wrought with peripheral suffering.
And what do you consider Christians think about Atheist hopes? We call it willful ignorance, a calculated guess, and a hope without any redemption in the next world...
Y'all can't even agree on whether there is no God, or whether there is no evidence for a God.
Are you a mormon? What is this "next world" talk? What evidence suggests that?

And I can agree with Chas that there is no evidence for any god, meaning that the existence of the god of the bible is just as likely as the existence of Zeus, Ra, Janus, Ares, etc.

Can I prove no god exists? No. Can I prove the Easter Bunny is not real? No. But I am not claiming they are or that they are not. I'm just saying "show the evidence."

Will convert for evidence.
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12-02-2013, 09:45 AM
RE: What is faith?
(12-02-2013 08:10 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  And what do you consider Christians think about Atheist hopes?
Atheist hopes? Really? [Image: facepalm.gif]

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12-02-2013, 09:47 AM
RE: What is faith?
(12-02-2013 09:45 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-02-2013 08:10 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  And what do you consider Christians think about Atheist hopes?
Atheist hopes? Really? [Image: facepalm.gif]
Yea, you know. How we hope that... Confused ...ummm...yea... Consider . I need more coffee before I can deal with this. Drinking Beverage

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12-02-2013, 11:16 AM
RE: What is faith?
Quote:I'm pretty sure we agree that there is no evidence of any gods and that it is extremely unlikely that there are any.
SO circular again; are we really needing to go back to the fact that 97% of humanity is not Atheist? Really? And spare my the "proof by majority fallacy" horse manure, please!
It's not a smoking gun for the existence of God but you HAVE to take the OVERWHELMING opinion of man that man agrees with the Bible (whether individuals know it or not) than man uniquely pursues an invisible God as evidence that either there is/may be a God OR as as evidence that man is insane and OVERWHELMINGLY deluded and not to be trusted in any matter great or small.
PleaseJesus says, PLEASE already. Give it up!
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