What is faith?
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14-02-2013, 02:29 PM
RE: What is faith?
Quote:The issue for "context" is that interpretations of the Bible are made by anyone who reads it. That is one of my major arguments against people wanting to derive any sort of spiritual meaning from these "holy" texts. They are too entirely old, generic, and anonymous for anyone to take them seriously. And I find that anyone attempts to debate about the interpretations of the Bible as though there is an objective meaning is absolutely deluded.
I can see what you're saying. My suggestion is to not take single verses but rather to interpret a single verse in the context of the passage that surrounds it, before and after. Satan in the Bible uses single verses and then Jesus gave Him context.
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14-02-2013, 02:35 PM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2013 02:40 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: What is faith?
(14-02-2013 02:29 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:The issue for "context" is that interpretations of the Bible are made by anyone who reads it. That is one of my major arguments against people wanting to derive any sort of spiritual meaning from these "holy" texts. They are too entirely old, generic, and anonymous for anyone to take them seriously. And I find that anyone attempts to debate about the interpretations of the Bible as though there is an objective meaning is absolutely deluded.
I can see what you're saying. My suggestion is to not take single verses but rather to interpret a single verse in the context of the passage that surrounds it, before and after. Satan in the Bible uses single verses and then Jesus gave Him context.
It really does't matter how much verse is used though. One could easily dispute the meaning with or without the verse fully intact.

And Satan used verses from a set of books that wasn't even in existence yet, or are you talking about the Torah (something Jesus claimed to have abolished in literal meaning anyway).

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14-02-2013, 03:03 PM
RE: What is faith?
Quote:It really does't matter how much verse is used though. One could easily dispute the meaning with or without the verse fully intact.
In the beginning
In the beginning God
In the beginning God created
There is no God
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God"
How then can we be saved?
How then can we be saved? Trust Jesus and you and your household...
Quote:And Satan used verses from a set of books that wasn't even in existence yet, or are you talking about the Torah (something Jesus claimed to have abolished in literal meaning anyway).


Satan quoted Tanakh and Talmud. Jesus said "Don't think I came to abolish the Law and the prophets. I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill."
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14-02-2013, 03:15 PM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2013 03:21 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: What is faith?
(14-02-2013 03:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:It really does't matter how much verse is used though. One could easily dispute the meaning with or without the verse fully intact.
In the beginning
In the beginning God
In the beginning God created
There is no God
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God"
How then can we be saved?
How then can we be saved? Trust Jesus and you and your household...
Quote:And Satan used verses from a set of books that wasn't even in existence yet, or are you talking about the Torah (something Jesus claimed to have abolished in literal meaning anyway).


Satan quoted Tanakh and Talmud. Jesus said "Don't think I came to abolish the Law and the prophets. I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill."
Coolstorybro.

You are contradicting your own Church in saying that the Mosaic Law was never longer abolished. You say "fulfilled" I say "abolished". In the end, you do not follow the intended interpretation of the Torah.

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14-02-2013, 03:28 PM
RE: What is faith?
Quote:You are contradicting your own Church in saying that the Mosaic Law was never longer abolished. You say "fulfilled" I say "abolished". In the end, you do not follow the intended interpretation of the Torah.
Fulfill - prophecies. Abolish law - Not why He came.
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14-02-2013, 03:56 PM
RE: What is faith?
(14-02-2013 03:28 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Fulfill - prophecies. Abolish law - Not why He came.
Nowhere in that verse are prophecies even mentioned. It is clearly talking about the fulfillment of the law.

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14-02-2013, 04:35 PM
RE: What is faith?
The prophets' job was to lay down the law for the Jewish people.

Do not think I came to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish but to fulfill.

He came to fulfill the law.

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15-02-2013, 08:35 AM
RE: What is faith?
The point is that Mosaic Law and the Old Testament are no longer followed by modern Christians because the New Testament nullified them. Whatever word you choose, the passage abolished them.

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15-02-2013, 08:45 AM
RE: What is faith?
(15-02-2013 08:35 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The point is that Mosaic Law and the Old Testament are no longer followed by modern Christians because the New Testament nullified them. Whatever word you choose, the passage abolished them.
How so? How does "I have not come to abolish but to fulfill. " mean abolish?

I know that many Christians think so, but it is incomprehensible to me.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-02-2013, 09:10 AM
RE: What is faith?
(15-02-2013 08:45 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-02-2013 08:35 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The point is that Mosaic Law and the Old Testament are no longer followed by modern Christians because the New Testament nullified them. Whatever word you choose, the passage abolished them.
How so? How does "I have not come to abolish but to fulfill. " mean abolish?

I know that many Christians think so, but it is incomprehensible to me.
It clearly has been abolished if the law is not upheld. I am not arguing that the direct quotation directly translates to such perception, but it is clearly the commonly held Christian belief. To them, "fulfill" and "abolish" seem to have interchangeable meanings, only that "abolish" is the vulgar terminology.

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