What is history?
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14-05-2013, 03:48 PM
What is history?
I hate to piss in peoples corn flakes but Drinking Beverage ....what is history?

No matter how much we pat ourselves on the back or stroke our own cock we today will not know very much of the past, especially the distant past, so we look over other peoples attempts to do the same thing as part of studying history. Is the past basically a huge hole with relatively small fragments of facts?
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14-05-2013, 04:04 PM
RE: What is history?
I beg to differ. We know quite a bit about the past and that knowledge is increased over time. It gets mukier the further back in time we go, but we are working on it. I'm not sure what your point is. The study of History is much like the study of science; no one claims to know everything with certainty (only Religion does that) the simple quest for knowledge is the goal. Like Science, our ideas and theories about History evolve. We thought things 50 years ago that we now believe are incorrect. It is a process. History evolves. I assumed everyone knew that.

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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14-05-2013, 04:19 PM
RE: What is history?
(14-05-2013 03:48 PM)I and I Wrote:  I hate to piss in peoples corn flakes but Drinking Beverage ....what is history?

No matter how much we pat ourselves on the back or stroke our own cock we today will not know very much of the past, especially the distant past, so we look over other peoples attempts to do the same thing as part of studying history. Is the past basically a huge hole with relatively small fragments of facts?

History is when what's written down about history matches archeological evidence.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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14-05-2013, 04:22 PM
RE: What is history?
(14-05-2013 04:04 PM)Heathen Wrote:  I beg to differ. We know quite a bit about the past and that knowledge is increased over time. It gets mukier the further back in time we go, but we are working on it. I'm not sure what your point is. The study of History is much like the study of science; no one claims to know everything with certainty (only Religion does that) the simple quest for knowledge is the goal. Like Science, our ideas and theories about History evolve. We thought things 50 years ago that we now believe are incorrect. It is a process. History evolves. I assumed everyone knew that.

Most history if not all of it is an assemblage of carefully chosen facts also.

History about other cultures is told by other cultures that have their own current ideologies and reasons to have certain facts considered less important or more important. The result of all of this is certainly not a clear picture of anything.

Looking at history is like looking at a painting, depending on which group of people are looking at it, they will be impressed about different aspects of the painting and then write about the painting in different ways.

The study of history today cannot be very clear for another obvious reason. The study of the past known today as history, is a modern field and most cultures before modernity expressed very little interest in the past like we do in modern times.

The belief that one can know everything is idiotic, the belief that one is on the path to knowing everything is religious and this religious notion unfortunately pervades over current "science" but that is another topic.
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14-05-2013, 04:26 PM
RE: What is history?
(14-05-2013 04:19 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(14-05-2013 03:48 PM)I and I Wrote:  I hate to piss in peoples corn flakes but Drinking Beverage ....what is history?

No matter how much we pat ourselves on the back or stroke our own cock we today will not know very much of the past, especially the distant past, so we look over other peoples attempts to do the same thing as part of studying history. Is the past basically a huge hole with relatively small fragments of facts?

History is when what's written down about history matches archeological evidence.

Problem 1. Most artifacts like the significant ones to a culture were destroyed by the larger empires.

Problem 2. If you could assemble every artifact that ever existed in a certain culture, you a person in 2013 would only be able to guess what these artifacts meant to someone in a completely different time and culture than yours. Again, a clear picture is not possible, and knowing whether or not you are getting a clearer picture of the past is not possible.


Drinking Beverage
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14-05-2013, 04:33 PM
RE: What is history?
History is whatever the Prophet Nehemiah I&I deems it to be, based on his infinite wisdom and, lo, his mighty power of cognition! He hath stricken down the falsehoods and blasphemous lies of so-called "modern archaeology" and "critical textual analysis" and that most evil of satanic divinations, " " " Evidence " " ". He has shown us the truth and the light, for knowing him is the only way to know THE TRUTH BRO.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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14-05-2013, 04:47 PM
RE: What is history?
...And lets not forget how ALL PEOPLE HAVE PENISES.

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14-05-2013, 05:00 PM
RE: What is history?
(14-05-2013 04:26 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(14-05-2013 04:19 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  History is when what's written down about history matches archeological evidence.

Problem 1. Most artifacts like the significant ones to a culture were destroyed by the larger empires.

Problem 2. If you could assemble every artifact that ever existed in a certain culture, you a person in 2013 would only be able to guess what these artifacts meant to someone in a completely different time and culture than yours. Again, a clear picture is not possible, and knowing whether or not you are getting a clearer picture of the past is not possible.


Drinking Beverage

Doesn't bother me. Historians especially those from prehistory make it expressly clear. "We can only guess what they did."

History is mostly done like trial. Read texts, gather evidence, probability of event happening in the text goes up with evidence.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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23-05-2013, 09:43 AM
RE: What is history?
Well, there is the old saying that "History is written by the winners." Probably true, but I suspect that a lot of what we "know" is either wrong or didn't happen.

Think of some historian a thousand years from now researching the early west in the USA. He/she will have ample evidence that cowboys wore cowboy hats, had gun battles in the street where each person faced each other and dared the other to draw, and spent a good part of their time finding, guarding or stealing gold. Of course he/she might wonder at the manual dexterity of persons at that age and time that allowed for deadly marksmanship from the back of a horse at a dead gallop.

And certainly the visual proof of twelve or fifteen shots coming from the primitive hand held weapon will collide with the factoid that they were called a "Six Shooter."

I suspect that we have been taken in by "What we know" about the past far more times than we suspect.
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23-05-2013, 10:26 AM
RE: What is history?
History often can and should be considered propaganda. That does not mean that one can find less biased and more truthful histories. "A Peoples History of the United States" is an excellent example.

One could hardly tell from the current status of native populations in California that California prior to its annexation by first Spain/Mexico and then the United States had one of the most dense population of natives in the world. One can find that out and learn how the natives were systematically kill off either by exposure to disease and outright murder. One just can not rely totally on the normal texts.

The general murder and screwing of natives in all the americas can be found, again one must get away from the normal texts. "1491" is a good example here.

It is easy to say that history is bunk written to fulfill someone's ego and is always going to be colored by the authors biases. There is a huge amount of truth to that. But to simply dismiss it all is rather egocentric itself.
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