What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
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14-11-2016, 07:09 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
Simmering widespread racism which boiled over and could no longer hide its ugly head when the darkie became in charge. Thanks Obama.

#sigh
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14-11-2016, 08:40 AM
What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
Hillary had more than 10,000,000 less votes than Obama did on his first run. The people were excited about Obama but were not enthused about Hillary.

It's odd that a racist country would have much higher turnout for Obama than Hillary.
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14-11-2016, 09:03 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 06:30 AM)julep Wrote:  Cultural and economic trends in combination, IMO.

1. Anti-intellectualism leading to rural decline. For years (maybe forever), people in small towns, suburbs, and rural areas have made life miserable for those who are different in any way that doesn't involve athletic talent (e.g., creative, smart, artistic). Then the "different" people leave for colleges and cities and places where they aren't made fun of for being on the honor roll, leaving the rural areas with the least talented and adaptable residents, at a time when the economy is moving away from labor-based jobs, leaving the communities to die. There's a reason people in urban areas haven't cared as much about the plight of rural America, and it's partly that in their hometowns, people bullied them mercilessly.

2. Economic shifts away from manufacturing and other labor-based work. The factories are closed, the family farms are gone. Even if the factories come back, the level of automation is such that the new factories will employ only a fraction of the workers that they used to. Democrats' answers to these problems are "go to college so you can get a better job," but college is expensive and out of intellectual reach for many people, and at any rate, in order to find that better job often you'd have to relocate. It used to be that sweat equity was valued less, but reasonably proportionately, to mental equity; now that relationship is entirely disproportionate. Also, for no good reason, many jobs today require a bachelors degree, putting the first rung of the ladder out of reach for people who could do those jobs just fine.

3. Broad economic insecurity. The rise of essentials costs has far outstripped wage rises. Technology's cheap; clothes are cheap. Housing, food, and healthcare costs are far, far greater, making it unaffordable for people earning near the minimum wage to afford what their parents could. At just over minimum wage when I was first working, a bit more than 30 years ago, I could afford to live by myself in a good-sized studio apartment in a safe neighborhood in Chicago, heat included ($250/month!!!). This is a structural problem that I don't know can be fixed, but it underlies everything.

4. Religious-fueled demonization of urbanites and urban attitudes. The evangelical movement decided to mobilize its political power and align with rich corporatists. Evangelicals have happily referred to those who disagree with them politically and socially as evil, rather than misguided. This has inflamed the rhetoric on both sides.

5. Misplaced self-loathing for economic failure. America being hailed as the land of opportunity, the implicit assumption is that individuals are responsible for their successes and failures. (Especially individuals who look like the Founding Fathers.) Yet there are people working hard and still not succeeding. A leader comes along and says that their failures are not their fault. "Others" (usually the wrong color or sexual orientation) have stolen the hardworking, but unrewarded, people's birthright/success. The leader promises that what has been stolen will be returned. No need to go into specifics, just has to sound indignant and forceful, people who haven't developed critical thinking abilities won't care--Trump hits at the emotional level.

6. Profiteering. There are many people who believe they'll be able to make more money under Trump, and the least scrupulous of them are right. Not so many pesky regulations, easy to flatter Trump into approving especially if you offer his companies a cut of the proceeds, plus military-related spending is going to go through the roof, along with "law and order" spending.

Racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are also mixed in with these trends, but if people weren't economically insecure and fearful and feeling like failures, they wouldn't have responded to Trump so strongly.

To these points I would add demographics: the baby boomers are getting older, faster, in the sense that they see the tech world evolving around them at breakneck pace and they can't cope. Most of them are increasingly afraid of growing older, of becoming socially invisible and irrelevant, and of dying, and they project this fear into the zeitgeist, hence the harking back to when "America was great" in other words, back when they were young and in control of themselves and their environment.
These are the people who voted in trump. He's both one of them and also what they aspire to: a fearful-of-change, raging-at-the-machine, get-off-my-lawn entitled narcissist who is the ultimate materialist for the me-generation.
They won't go quietly into that good night.

Your faith is not evidence, your opinion is not fact, and your bias is not wisdom
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14-11-2016, 09:18 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(13-11-2016 10:45 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I don’t think Trump being voted into office has anything to do with prejudice in any form; not racism, and not sexism. The democrats have basically been telling white America that their time in the lime light is up, that it’s time to pay the pied piper and they better just suck it up and deal. White folks believe that they're fronting the bill for immigrants and poor minorities, and they’re not seeing the return on their investment.

Correct or incorrect, white people see that the qualities of their lives are decreasing, and the democrats did not listen to their pleas. To paraphrase Bill Maher, white America felt like a disenfranchised minority, and they voted like a disenfranchised minority.

It seems to me Hillary lost because she was not able to generate the same enthusiasm as Obama in 2012. The enthusiasm in this election was lower than 2012. Fewer people voted for Trump than for Mitt Romney in 2012. Hillary's popular vote barely edges Mitt Romney's.

That should cast some doubts about people coming out in droves for Trump, be they racists or not, as suggested by Bill Maher. Maybe a state by state breakdown in the battleground states might corroborate his views.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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14-11-2016, 09:40 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
I think there is truth in many of the posts. The reasons for trump are so complex, it's hundreds of Gordian Knots, everywhere, all across the country and around the world. trump, however, is no Alexander the Great who will untie it. Americans want simple solutions to complex problems and trump's rhetoric was the simplest...... so that's who they chose.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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14-11-2016, 10:12 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
1) facts have become less about what is and isn't actually true, and more about what people think should or shouldn't be true. So, it wasn't true that Hilary had done anything illegal and that she was about to be indicted, but it felt like it SHOULD be true so it was believed rather easily to be true.
2) where one goes to get facts is now a clusterfuck of enormous proportions. Most people don't know how to vet sources, so they get their BS from all sorts of easily refutable outlets online. It isn't only that it is an echo chamber, it is that it is an echo stadium.
3) yeah, America is racist, xenophobic, and misogynistic. We knew that going into this (the degree to which we might have all believed those things to be true will vary but I doubt anyone would say that they were absent). It isn't so much that America is racist, xenophobic, and misogynistic, but that so many people didn't go vote against it. It isn't surprising that so many voted for it, it is surprising how many didn't vote against it.
4) many people voted for Trump over some single issue or niggling detail. Ergo, staunch conservatives overlooked his racism, misogyny, xenophobia, back-sliding, flip-flopping, and ignorance because he will appoint people to the Supreme Court. They were complacent with his faults simply to give access to the GOP.
5) Hilary was too hated to make up for the fact that there were so many pissed-off rural white people who would turn out to vote for Trump. the consequence was that people chose not to vote or voted third party.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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14-11-2016, 10:16 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 08:40 AM)KUSA Wrote:  Hillary had more than 10,000,000 less votes than Obama did on his first run. The people were excited about Obama but were not enthused about Hillary.

And she still got more votes than Trump.

(14-11-2016 08:40 AM)KUSA Wrote:  It's odd that a racist country would have much higher turnout for Obama than Hillary.

Widespread racism does not equal "racist country". It only takes a determined few to spread it far and wide.

#sigh
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14-11-2016, 10:22 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 10:16 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 08:40 AM)KUSA Wrote:  Hillary had more than 10,000,000 less votes than Obama did on his first run. The people were excited about Obama but were not enthused about Hillary.

It's odd that a racist country would have much higher turnout for Obama than Hillary.

Widespread racism does not equal "racist country". It only takes a determined few to spread it wide and far.

In any case, I think most Trump voters voted against Obama, rendering KUSA's line of defense moot.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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14-11-2016, 10:25 AM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2016 10:35 AM by GenesisNemesis.)
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
Trump is a political outsider and so appealed to those who were tired of the usual politicians. Furthermore, we're a society that adores the rich and famous. Conservatives love "successful" people, and they perceive that as translating into being a strong leader, because "he wouldn't be successful if he wasn't a strong leader". Trump came in at a time when conservative discontent with "the establishment" (i.e. liberals, because somehow liberals are the establishment when we don't actually have anyone representing liberalism), was at an all time high. So Trump told them what they wanted to hear, and because they were so desperate for a republican president, after 8 years of Obama, they voted for him. As the saying goes, desperate times call for desperate measures.

Oh, and don't forget the Electoral College. Hillary won the popular vote.
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14-11-2016, 10:25 AM
What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 10:16 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  And she still got more votes than Trump.
But what happened to the 10,000,000 plus votes that he got but weren't given to her?

Quote:Widespread racism does not equal "racist country". It only takes a determined few to spread it far and wide.
Are you implying that Obama supporters were transformed into racists by the determined few?
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