What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
14-11-2016, 10:29 AM
What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 10:22 AM)tomilay Wrote:  In any case, I think most Trump voters voted against Obama, rendering KUSA's line of defense moot.

1- I'm not defending anything just pointing something out.

2- I agree that most Trump supporters voted against Obama in the last two elections but where were the people that did vote for him when it came time to vote for Hillary?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-11-2016, 10:36 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 10:25 AM)KUSA Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 10:16 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  And she still got more votes than Trump.
But what happened to the 10,000,000 plus votes that he got but weren't given to her?

Quote:Widespread racism does not equal "racist country". It only takes a determined few to spread it far and wide.
Are you implying that Obama supporters were transformed into racists by the determined few?

"Are you implying that Obama supporters were transformed into racists by the determined few?"

No one said or implied any such thing. The observation that many of Obama's supporters chose not to vote (or to vote third party) instead of voting for Hilary does not mean that anyone is implying that they "transformed into racists." It means that they didn't like the idea of voting for Hilary.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-11-2016, 10:40 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 10:22 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 10:16 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Widespread racism does not equal "racist country". It only takes a determined few to spread it wide and far.

In any case, I think most Trump voters voted against Obama, rendering KUSA's line of defense moot.

Being against Obama does not equal racism. We're a partisan country now. Of course republicans are going to be against every move Obama makes. Just like democrats are going to loath every single thing Trump does. It would be no different if it was Ted Cruz, Rubio, Jeb Bush or Trump. There is no middle now. If Hillary got elected, all we would hear for the next 4-8 years was how republicans only disagree with Hillary's decisions is because she's a woman. When in reality, both parties hate each other and every decision the other makes will be critisized.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
[Image: 25397spaceballs.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-11-2016, 10:41 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 10:29 AM)KUSA Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 10:22 AM)tomilay Wrote:  In any case, I think most Trump voters voted against Obama, rendering KUSA's line of defense moot.

1- I'm not defending anything just pointing something out.

2- I agree that most Trump supporters voted against Obama in the last two elections but where were the people that did vote for him when it came time to vote for Hillary?

Some, a few, might have voted for Trump. I think the larger chunk of the difference abstained altogether.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-11-2016, 10:42 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 10:40 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 10:22 AM)tomilay Wrote:  In any case, I think most Trump voters voted against Obama, rendering KUSA's line of defense moot.

Pure stupidity. Being against Obama does not equal racism. We're a partisan country now. Of course republicans are going to be against every move Obama makes. Just like democrats are going to loath every single thing Trump does. It would be no different if it was Ted Cruz, Rubio, Jeb Bush or Trump. There is no middle now. If Hillary got elected, all we would hear for the next 4-8 years was how republicans only disagree with Hillary's decisions is because she's a woman. When in reality, both parties hate each other and every decision the other makes will be critisized.

The point went over your head. Obviously.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-11-2016, 10:50 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 10:40 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 10:22 AM)tomilay Wrote:  In any case, I think most Trump voters voted against Obama, rendering KUSA's line of defense moot.

Being against Obama does not equal racism. We're a partisan country now. Of course republicans are going to be against every move Obama makes. Just like democrats are going to loath every single thing Trump does. It would be no different if it was Ted Cruz, Rubio, Jeb Bush or Trump. There is no middle now. If Hillary got elected, all we would hear for the next 4-8 years was how republicans only disagree with Hillary's decisions is because she's a woman. When in reality, both parties hate each other and every decision the other makes will be critisized.

That ignores the reality that it's the Republicans who refuse to do their fucking jobs. It's the Republicans that would rather shut down the government than reach a compromise. It's the Republicans that would rather us not have a Supreme Court Justice for almost a year instead of compromising on an appointment with the Democrats, who were going to pick a centrist anyways. But no, compromise is a bridge to far for the Republicans, not the Democrats.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like EvolutionKills's post
14-11-2016, 10:50 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 10:42 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 10:40 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Pure stupidity. Being against Obama does not equal racism. We're a partisan country now. Of course republicans are going to be against every move Obama makes. Just like democrats are going to loath every single thing Trump does. It would be no different if it was Ted Cruz, Rubio, Jeb Bush or Trump. There is no middle now. If Hillary got elected, all we would hear for the next 4-8 years was how republicans only disagree with Hillary's decisions is because she's a woman. When in reality, both parties hate each other and every decision the other makes will be critisized.

The point went over your head. Obviously.

I meant to quote Girly, not you.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
[Image: 25397spaceballs.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-11-2016, 10:51 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 10:50 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 10:40 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Being against Obama does not equal racism. We're a partisan country now. Of course republicans are going to be against every move Obama makes. Just like democrats are going to loath every single thing Trump does. It would be no different if it was Ted Cruz, Rubio, Jeb Bush or Trump. There is no middle now. If Hillary got elected, all we would hear for the next 4-8 years was how republicans only disagree with Hillary's decisions is because she's a woman. When in reality, both parties hate each other and every decision the other makes will be critisized.

That ignores the reality that it's the Republicans who refuse to do their fucking jobs. It's the Republicans that would rather shut down the government than reach a compromise. It's the Republicans that would rather us not have a Supreme Court Justice for almost a year instead of compromising on an appointment with the Democrats, who were going to pick a centrist anyways. But no, compromise is a bridge to far for the Republicans, not the Democrats.

And now it's the democrats turn to kick and scream and use the filibuster. Nothing has changed.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
[Image: 25397spaceballs.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-11-2016, 10:54 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 10:50 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 10:42 AM)tomilay Wrote:  The point went over your head. Obviously.

I meant to quote Girly, not you.

Noted. My point though was to clear any misunderstanding that can arise from a casual reading of KUSA. That race is not an issue because Obama got more votes than Hillary. The merits aside, that is a very misleading way to argue.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-11-2016, 11:54 AM
RE: What is it about the US that Trump could be elected President?
(14-11-2016 09:03 AM)Reducetarian Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 06:30 AM)julep Wrote:  Cultural and economic trends in combination, IMO.

1. Anti-intellectualism leading to rural decline. For years (maybe forever), people in small towns, suburbs, and rural areas have made life miserable for those who are different in any way that doesn't involve athletic talent (e.g., creative, smart, artistic). Then the "different" people leave for colleges and cities and places where they aren't made fun of for being on the honor roll, leaving the rural areas with the least talented and adaptable residents, at a time when the economy is moving away from labor-based jobs, leaving the communities to die. There's a reason people in urban areas haven't cared as much about the plight of rural America, and it's partly that in their hometowns, people bullied them mercilessly.

2. Economic shifts away from manufacturing and other labor-based work. The factories are closed, the family farms are gone. Even if the factories come back, the level of automation is such that the new factories will employ only a fraction of the workers that they used to. Democrats' answers to these problems are "go to college so you can get a better job," but college is expensive and out of intellectual reach for many people, and at any rate, in order to find that better job often you'd have to relocate. It used to be that sweat equity was valued less, but reasonably proportionately, to mental equity; now that relationship is entirely disproportionate. Also, for no good reason, many jobs today require a bachelors degree, putting the first rung of the ladder out of reach for people who could do those jobs just fine.

3. Broad economic insecurity. The rise of essentials costs has far outstripped wage rises. Technology's cheap; clothes are cheap. Housing, food, and healthcare costs are far, far greater, making it unaffordable for people earning near the minimum wage to afford what their parents could. At just over minimum wage when I was first working, a bit more than 30 years ago, I could afford to live by myself in a good-sized studio apartment in a safe neighborhood in Chicago, heat included ($250/month!!!). This is a structural problem that I don't know can be fixed, but it underlies everything.

4. Religious-fueled demonization of urbanites and urban attitudes. The evangelical movement decided to mobilize its political power and align with rich corporatists. Evangelicals have happily referred to those who disagree with them politically and socially as evil, rather than misguided. This has inflamed the rhetoric on both sides.

5. Misplaced self-loathing for economic failure. America being hailed as the land of opportunity, the implicit assumption is that individuals are responsible for their successes and failures. (Especially individuals who look like the Founding Fathers.) Yet there are people working hard and still not succeeding. A leader comes along and says that their failures are not their fault. "Others" (usually the wrong color or sexual orientation) have stolen the hardworking, but unrewarded, people's birthright/success. The leader promises that what has been stolen will be returned. No need to go into specifics, just has to sound indignant and forceful, people who haven't developed critical thinking abilities won't care--Trump hits at the emotional level.

6. Profiteering. There are many people who believe they'll be able to make more money under Trump, and the least scrupulous of them are right. Not so many pesky regulations, easy to flatter Trump into approving especially if you offer his companies a cut of the proceeds, plus military-related spending is going to go through the roof, along with "law and order" spending.

Racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are also mixed in with these trends, but if people weren't economically insecure and fearful and feeling like failures, they wouldn't have responded to Trump so strongly.

To these points I would add demographics: the baby boomers are getting older, faster, in the sense that they see the tech world evolving around them at breakneck pace and they can't cope. Most of them are increasingly afraid of growing older, of becoming socially invisible and irrelevant, and of dying, and they project this fear into the zeitgeist, hence the harking back to when "America was great" in other words, back when they were young and in control of themselves and their environment.
These are the people who voted in trump. He's both one of them and also what they aspire to: a fearful-of-change, raging-at-the-machine, get-off-my-lawn entitled narcissist who is the ultimate materialist for the me-generation.
They won't go quietly into that good night.

You are ridiculous! Us boomers brought you gay liberation, women's rights, interracial marriages, legalization of abortion and legalization of weed by virtue of speaking up about these things and taking to the streets for years. Most of us are totally shell shocked to see our legacy wiped out - at a time where we are aging and unable to right the wrong anymore. Thank dog there are younger people today who try to pick up what the country dropped.

It's rural communities that voted Trump in. Not an age group.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dom's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: