What is it about theists that make them think that personal insults win a debate?
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20-02-2013, 03:53 PM
RE: What is it about theists that make them think that personal insults win a debate?
Quote:You've never met him. You rely on other people's stories and most of those can be shown to either be stolen from other religions or require suspensions of the natural order (in your favor) to be true. You are not trusting Jesus, you have blind faith in the stories that tell you to trust Jesus.
I acknowledge what you're saying. I'm also affirming that the Bible's record--the document to be examined and criticized--is not primarily a hearsay document about Christ.

It is eyewitnesses speaking of Jesus and prophecies, therefore their trust is not blind. Their "faith" was trust in someone they knew personally.

My "faith" in the writers includes reading their testimony and discerning what I believe is their honest account. I was foreman of a jury once, and none of us were allowed to have been present at the scene or know the alleged criminal outside the court, etc. If that is your baseline judgment, our courts system needs to close down. Every court case is decided by jurors hearing witnesses and receiving forensic and other evidence secondhand.

Of course, the assumption is I read the Bible in the past or now and trust everything I read blindly without looking up secular confirmations of prophecies, praying as the Bible proscribes, testing the Lord via tithing or whatever...

I hear what you're saying, and I get it. However 1) The bible faith is not a "blind" faith. 2) My faith is reasonable, since we decide many, many things from whether George Washington existed to whether we should drink acid via second and third-party testimony, and often from books and other documents 3) A "real" Christian to me is someone who not only trusts Jesus, but goes the extra mile to test and try and see and learn.

Thanks!
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20-02-2013, 03:55 PM
RE: What is it about theists that make them think that personal insults win a debate?
(20-02-2013 03:49 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  We took this pic of her Sunday.
Heart Look who's standing!! Pretty dress, too. Heart



Probably didn't want to go to church... did she? You can tell us... we know. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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20-02-2013, 03:56 PM
Re: What is it about theists that make them think that personal insults win a debate?
No one who met Christ or saw him wrote down anything about him.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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20-02-2013, 04:00 PM
RE: What is it about theists that make them think that personal insults win a debate?
(20-02-2013 03:55 PM)kim Wrote:  
(20-02-2013 03:49 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  We took this pic of her Sunday.
Heart Look who's standing!! Pretty dress, too. Heart



Probably didn't want to go to church... did she? You can tell us... we know. Wink
Hah, yep. She's been pulling up and trying to walk. She's going to be running in no time. My son did the same thing. And man... it doesn't seem like it's been 9 months. Time flies.

She loves church Smile

Probably because everyone wants to hold and rock her in the nursery. She's just such a sweet and easy going kid.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
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20-02-2013, 04:01 PM
Re: What is it about theists that make them think that personal insults win a debate?
And we also have plenty of examples of figures in history who are complete fabrications, even in American lore. Stories about people provide no evidence about their existence.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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20-02-2013, 04:06 PM
RE: What is it about theists that make them think that personal insults win a debate?
She does seem laid back and she has such a sweet little face.

Nine months already, Kingsy? Dang! Well, she'll be one of us in no time. Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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20-02-2013, 04:26 PM
RE: What is it about theists that make them think that personal insults win a debate?
(20-02-2013 03:53 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:You've never met him. You rely on other people's stories and most of those can be shown to either be stolen from other religions or require suspensions of the natural order (in your favor) to be true. You are not trusting Jesus, you have blind faith in the stories that tell you to trust Jesus.
I acknowledge what you're saying. I'm also affirming that the Bible's record--the document to be examined and criticized--is not primarily a hearsay document about Christ.

It is eyewitnesses speaking of Jesus and prophecies, therefore their trust is not blind. Their "faith" was trust in someone they knew personally.

My "faith" in the writers includes reading their testimony and discerning what I believe is their honest account. I was foreman of a jury once, and none of us were allowed to have been present at the scene or know the alleged criminal outside the court, etc. If that is your baseline judgment, our courts system needs to close down. Every court case is decided by jurors hearing witnesses and receiving forensic and other evidence secondhand.

Of course, the assumption is I read the Bible in the past or now and trust everything I read blindly without looking up secular confirmations of prophecies, praying as the Bible proscribes, testing the Lord via tithing or whatever...

I hear what you're saying, and I get it. However 1) The bible faith is not a "blind" faith. 2) My faith is reasonable, since we decide many, many things from whether George Washington existed to whether we should drink acid via second and third-party testimony, and often from books and other documents 3) A "real" Christian to me is someone who not only trusts Jesus, but goes the extra mile to test and try and see and learn.

Thanks!
We have artifacts (letters, photos etc.) and many 1st person accounts of George Washington (which the 1st hand accounts have 1st hand accounts backing them up and so on). The primary evidence is so overwhelming, we need not look to the circumstantial evidence of secondary sources for corroboration or confirmation.


Jesus has no evidence just hearsay for his existence. Use whatever word to describe this, besides rational.

Arguing with a Christian is a lot like playing chess with a pigeon. You can be the greatest player in the world, yet the pigeon will knock over all the pieces, shit on the board and strut away triumphantly.
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20-02-2013, 06:11 PM
RE: What is it about theists that make them think that personal insults win a debate?
What is it about theists some people that make them think that personal insults win a debate?


There. That's better. :-)
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20-02-2013, 07:05 PM
RE: What is it about theists that make them think that personal insults win a debate?
There are no first hand accounts of people who wrote about Jesus.
People that lived during that period of time who would have loved to have written about just this kind of character in the books they did write have nothing to say about him. Why is that ? It's because he's a fictional character who was created many many decades later.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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20-02-2013, 10:49 PM
RE: What is it about theists that make them think that personal insults win a debate?
I "debated" with a girl on my bus and she was on the brink of crying because I went on a brain melting talking spree and proved the origin of the universe and man in 1 minute.

I felt pretty bad and she will probably tell her parents.


Just another day in the life of someone who knows just a bit too much about space and evolution.
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