What is religion?
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16-11-2015, 11:57 PM
RE: What is religion?
(16-11-2015 04:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 04:14 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I agree completely. So who is the God of the Old Testament who has a Rod and a Staff which "comfort me"? Who is the big "man" in the "heavens" who people looked up to?

The good shepherd...

http://theheavensdeclare.net/?p=16786

Well, surprise, surprise, it's Orion.

Well, it's not Orion as he is a hunter who Zeus placed in the sky.

Really?Drinking Beverage
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17-11-2015, 06:34 AM
RE: What is religion?
(16-11-2015 11:10 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 04:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, it's not Orion as he is a hunter who Zeus placed in the sky.

That's what the lizard people want you to think

Shh! The first rule of lizard people club is you don't talk about lizard people club!

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

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17-11-2015, 07:06 AM
RE: What is religion?
(16-11-2015 11:57 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 04:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, it's not Orion as he is a hunter who Zeus placed in the sky.

Really?Drinking Beverage

Greek myth predates Christian myth. Really.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-11-2015, 07:21 AM
What is religion?
Belief in the existence of a God comes from the fact that you can have a conversation in your head with yourself or others.

Have you ever rehearsed a conversation with someone else in your head? Sure you have. Now just tell yourself that it is God you are talking to.
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17-11-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: What is religion?
(17-11-2015 07:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 11:57 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Really?Drinking Beverage

Greek myth predates Christian myth. Really.

He's actually a Babylonian region myth as the Sheppard so I think the Shepard is probably older. Though the archer/warrior view does spread even beyond the greek region, so that was definitely there at a early time for cultures.

Though I think solved the answer to the posed initial question. I believe it's, "A miserable pile of secrets."

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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17-11-2015, 02:13 PM
RE: What is religion?
I think the "god" figure represented by Orion goes back to the hunter gatherer people. If you look at the Armenians and their national myth of Hayk, you see a hunter figure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayk These are the people who Jospephus said were the "Jews", but not as we know them. Armenians are simply Sumerians who have moved north from Ur in southern Iraq which is where Abraham is supposed to have come from.

The philosopher Feuerbach had an atheistic and materialistic view of what god was:

"Feuerbach developed what he calls the "true or anthropological essence of religion." Treating of God in his various aspects "as a being of the understanding," "as a moral being or law," "as love" and so on. Feuerbach talks of how humankind is equally a conscious being, more so than God because humans have placed upon God the ability of understanding. Humans contemplate many things and in doing so they become acquainted with themselves. Feuerbach shows that in every aspect God corresponds to some feature or need of human nature. As he states,

"In the consciousness of the infinite, the conscious subject has for his object the infinity of his own nature."

Instead, Feuerbach concludes, "If man is to find contentment in God," he claims, "he must find himself in God."

Thus God is nothing else than human: he is, so to speak, the outward projection of a human's inward nature. "


What this means is that if you can identify "God" then you can work backwards and figure out who the people were who created him, because they created him in their own image...

So, if god is a shephard, a big man in the sky, you look for people who saw that in their own nature.

I think the center of this religion has to be Gobekli Tepe with its hunting theme going back to the Sumerians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe I think we are just at the beginning of reconstructing the history of western religion. When I was a kid most people I knew accepted the biblical view that the world was created about 4000 years ago. Except we lived in an area where there were dinosaurs... The way they got around this was crazy and was debated in our university newspaper into the 1970s and involved a finding of a geological anomaly called "out of place layers" in the Lewis Overthrust http://creationwiki.org/Geological_colum...ace_layers Needless to say I changed universtities. Anyway, it just goes to show how we are still at the very beginning of this development after a couple of thousand years of Christianized bending of the truth which even overwhelms whole universities, if they happen to have religious Chancellors, Deans and professors, which is pretty much the case for all Western Universities. I don't know of too many atheists who have made it to those positions in the US. Which is why I don't pay much heed to this need to find "peer reviewed" works to support anything to do with the discussion of religion.
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17-11-2015, 02:19 PM
RE: What is religion?
(17-11-2015 07:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 11:57 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Really?Drinking Beverage

Greek myth predates Christian myth. Really.

Really?Drinking Beverage
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17-11-2015, 02:41 PM
RE: What is religion?
And when people of that part of the world became agrarians, the god figure, Orion, becomes the Good Shephard. If you go to this site you will find a page (I can't locate it now) which has archaeological explorations of Syria which shows that Syria was sheep farming country 2000 years ago. http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...n-ancestry

So, when this civilization changed from hunter gatherer to agrarian, it's sky god changed from the great hunter to the good shepherd. Later, when people became more urban and sophisticated, and educated, the god became one of "reason" or the "logos" and the ideal which then became the core of the religion was "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Except in those elements of the population who couldn't or wouldn't adopt this attitude and continued to see the "god" within them as barbaric, vengeful, male etc etc. Which is why we still have problems with Jihadism, because these people continue, to this day, to project their own male rage onto a god figure.
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17-11-2015, 02:49 PM
RE: What is religion?
Why, that MUST be it. Facepalm Weeping
Except that didn't happen. Yahweh was a war god the Jews accepted as their deity just as they settled into a confederation. Oh well. More fake dots ... more fake dot connections.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-11-2015, 04:04 PM
RE: What is religion?
I'm trying to figure out the direction of this forum but...

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