What is the best evidence against Christianity
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29-11-2016, 08:06 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-11-2016 07:40 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  I want the truth
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29-11-2016, 08:20 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-11-2016 08:01 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Is that another question?

I question your questionable questions!

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29-11-2016, 08:20 PM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2016 06:31 AM by Fatbaldhobbit.)
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-11-2016 07:40 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  I want the truth

Then you are starting in the wrong position.

You are asking us why we think the bible is false.

You should start out by asking yourself why you think the bible is true.



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29-11-2016, 08:27 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-11-2016 07:18 PM)Loom Wrote:  Who says Jesus was an actual person? It's highly debatable that he ever existed even as some regular no-magic guy.

No it isn't, and if you use the mythicist argument with Christians they have every right not to listen to anything else you say. There is however wide scholarly agreement that Moses was not a historical person, and that is a major problem for Christianity. Without Moses there's no covenant with Jehovah that believers were unable to keep that forms the necessity for Jesus to come and replace it with the "New Covenant".

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29-11-2016, 08:30 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-11-2016 08:27 PM)Aractus Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 07:18 PM)Loom Wrote:  Who says Jesus was an actual person? It's highly debatable that he ever existed even as some regular no-magic guy.

No it isn't, and if you use the mythicist argument with Christians they have every right not to listen to anything else you say. There is however wide scholarly agreement that Moses was not a historical person, and that is a major problem for Christianity. Without Moses there's no covenant with Jehovah that believers were unable to keep that forms the necessity for Jesus to come and replace it with the "New Covenant".

This will probably start another Aractus-Bucky war.

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29-11-2016, 08:43 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-11-2016 07:22 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  Ok I'll try to be open minded why do you think Jesus never existed

You're asking far too many questions, and giving us to much rhetorical feedback. You need to tell us why you have so much faith in your holy book's content and the character's therein. And as atheists, it's not up to us to prove that your god does not exist—it's your job to prove that he does

It's you who's making all sorts of claims, therefore it's you that has to provide viable evidence supporting those claims.

It's also obvious that you don't have an "open mind". No

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29-11-2016, 08:53 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-11-2016 08:27 PM)Aractus Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 07:18 PM)Loom Wrote:  Who says Jesus was an actual person? It's highly debatable that he ever existed even as some regular no-magic guy.

No it isn't, and if you use the mythicist argument with Christians they have every right not to listen to anything else you say.

Yes, because ignoring inconvenient questions has worked so well in the past.

First of all, yes, there was most likely a real person at the root of the jesus stories.

Second of all, there is no way to prove any of the stories told about him have any basis in reality.

Thirdly, forcing them to justify their savior's existence should be a wake-up call. It should open the door to an entire library's worth of questions.

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29-11-2016, 09:00 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-11-2016 02:49 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  Isn't there anything in the bible that can be proven or disproven

Yes there are. I can give you a list, but the main areas of concern are:

1. The Exodus and historicity of Moses,
2. 600,000 Semitic men plus their families staying in the Sinai Peninsula for 40 years,
3. The conquest of Canaan.

All three have been thoroughly disproved.

As for the New Testament there is wide scholarly agreement including theist scholars that:

1. The nativities are not historically-based,
2. The Romans, not the Jews were responsible for having Jesus arrested,
3. There was not a physical resurrection of Jesus.

Furthermore scholars cannot agree on where Jesus's body went after crucifixion. Some believe it went to Joseph of Arrhythmia's tomb. Some believe that the tomb was owned by the Jewish authorities and loaned out to Jews in and around Jerusalem who needed to use it before burial in their own towns/cities. Some believe it was left to hang on the cross and then disposed of by the Romans in an unmarked mass grave.

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29-11-2016, 09:05 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
Hello! Big Grin

Welcome to the forum, just give me a moment to catch my breath after running to catch up with the thread.

(29-11-2016 05:43 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  Pretty much everyone believer or atheist agrees Jesus existed it's the stories about him that are in debate

Okay, well I for one do not agree that a person of such qualities actually existed.

As for the name? Yeah, probably dime a dozen. Consider

(29-11-2016 06:47 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  Here's a list of all my questions

1. What makes you believe the bible is wrong

2. What actual proven historical and scientific evidence is there that it's not real

3. Why does the bible have no major contradictions

(29-11-2016 06:50 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  1) lack of evidence for its claims

2) the geologic record, fossil record, archaeological record, evolutionary relationships among organisms, etc

3) it does. It possess literally no evidence god is real. That's a pretty big contradiction. It also has no corroborating evidence for Jesus or the stories attributed to him. That's a pretty big contradiction.

(29-11-2016 09:00 PM)Aractus Wrote:  1. The Exodus and historicity of Moses,
2. 600,000 Semitic men plus their families staying in the Sinai Peninsula for 40 years,
3. The conquest of Canaan.

All three have been thoroughly disproved.

As for the New Testament there is wide scholarly agreement including theist scholars that:

1. The nativities are not historically-based,
2. The Romans, not the Jews were responsible for having Jesus arrested,
3. There was not a physical resurrection of Jesus.

Furthermore scholars cannot agree on where Jesus's body went after crucifixion. Some believe it went to Joseph of Arrhythmia's tomb. Some believe that the tomb was owned by the Jewish authorities and loaned out to Jews in and around Jerusalem who needed to use it before burial in their own towns/cities. Some believe it was left to hang on the cross and then disposed of by the Romans in an unmarked mass grave.


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29-11-2016, 09:06 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-11-2016 08:53 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Second of all, there is no way to prove any of the stories told about him have any basis in reality.

Well yes there is. There is wide scholarly agreement on a number of things that occur in the New Testament. For example, the rejection at Nazareth is considered a historical event. The crucifixion of Jesus is considered historical. The baptism by John is considered historical. The disruption in the Temple is considered historical.

More broadly there is agreement he delivered teachings, performed healings, and called disciples as well. There is not an agreement over the number of disciples that he called (which the gospels lists as being 12).

Quote:Thirdly, forcing them to justify their savior's existence should be a wake-up call. It should open the door to an entire library's worth of questions.

They don't have to justify his existence, they can simply point to there being wide scholarly agreement, and not just amongst NT scholars, but also amongst classicists as well. Classicists do not have a vested interest in Jesus the way that NT scholars do, so anyone who is going to doubt the existence of Jesus needs to explain why we can't trust classicists on this.

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