What is the best evidence against Christianity
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30-11-2016, 06:45 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-11-2016 11:35 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  No I'm not a Christian, I'm just really scared they're right

Do you worry about going to the Muslim hell? Are you scared that you may have to spend your next life as a cockroach? Does it worry you that you may not be let into Valhalla? Perhaps you will end up in Gre'thor instead of Stovokor when you die?

Until somebody can demonstrate that they are making an actual threat there is no good reason to take any of it seriously. Being afraid of hell is about as sensible as worrying that Santa will only bring you coal.

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30-11-2016, 06:54 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
There is something wrong with a "relationship" when one of the participants says "I love you, but if you leave me I'll torture you forever."

We have words for that, and "love" is not one of them.

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30-11-2016, 09:06 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-11-2016 06:27 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  So, in other words you agree with me that there was likely an historical jesus but he didn't perform any actual miracles?

I didn't say he performed any miracles, I said he performed healings and exorcisms. Lots of people did that in the ancient world, and they still do it today. There is no doubt that some people would have genuinely believed they had been healed following these events/ceremonies. It doesn't make them gullible, it simply means they believe in their theology.

His followers also believed he had been raised from the dead - to the celestial realm that is. It's found all throughout Paul's letters.

Quote:The CHURCH teaches that there is 100% absolute certainty that:
Jesus existed, he was of divine birth, he performed miracles and that he was physically resurrected.

Again, I'm not discussing what "the" church teaches.

Quote:YOU stated that anyone arguing the Mythicist position should be completely disregarded. That is 100% wrong.

That's not what I said. And the mythicist position is entirely unsubstantiated, and untenable at this time - there are no two mythicist scholars who share the same theory. Look at what Carrier says about Price - he thinks Price's hypotheses are nonsense. No other scholar supports Carrier's easily discredited hypothesis either. Carrier at least believes Paul of Tarsus exited. However, the historicity of Jesus is better attested to than that of Paul - and that's what almost any scholar will tell you.

Quote:Believers need to learn to ask questions. They need to learn how to do research and think for themselves in regards to their religion.

Firstly, they're free to do whatever they want. Secondly, you're kidding yourself if you expect people to suddenly change deeply held beliefs and world views.

Quote:Saying that they can't question Christ's existence is similar to saying that they can't question his divinity.

There is no valid reason to question the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth. If he didn't exist then who gave us the Parable of the Good Samaritan? If he didn't exist how is it possible that James knows the content of the SotM before it's written down in Matthew c. 85 AD? If he didn't exist, why would his followers invent a Roman crucifixion? It can be shown that the crucifixion of Jesus caused a crisis in his followers!

The discussion is a complete waste of time when you can attack the things about the Bible including the NT that are clearly problematic for Christians.

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30-11-2016, 09:30 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-11-2016 08:27 PM)Aractus Wrote:  
Quote:YOU stated that anyone arguing the Mythicist position should be completely disregarded. That is 100% wrong.

That's not what I said.

Oh?

(29-11-2016 08:27 PM)Aractus Wrote:  No it isn't, and if you use the mythicist argument with Christians they have every right not to listen to anything else you say.

That is what you said.

(29-11-2016 08:27 PM)Aractus Wrote:  
Quote:Believers need to learn to ask questions. They need to learn how to do research and think for themselves in regards to their religion.

Firstly, they're free to do whatever they want. Secondly, you're kidding yourself if you expect people to suddenly change deeply held beliefs and world views.

Firstly, they're free to do whatever they want until they interfere with my life.
If they keep their beliefs out of my government and schools, then fine. That's not what happens.

Secondly, I never said I expected anyone to change suddenly. That's where the questioning, researching and thinking comes into play.

(29-11-2016 08:27 PM)Aractus Wrote:  There is no valid reason to question the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth.

Wrong. There is sufficient historical evidence to justify his existence. That does not make the question invalid.

A person asks "Did jesus of Nazareth really exist?"
We can answer "Yes, we believe he did. Here is the evidence that supports our belief."

Why is that question invalid?

(29-11-2016 08:27 PM)Aractus Wrote:  If he didn't exist then who gave us the Parable of the Good Samaritan?

Maybe the same person who made up the story of the Woman Taken in Adultery.

Maybe it was jesus. The thing is, while you can determine that he did exist, determining quotes and sayings is much more problematic.

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30-11-2016, 09:47 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-11-2016 06:45 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Perhaps you will end up in Gre'thor instead of Stovokor when you die?

Five points for that reference! Big Grin

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30-11-2016, 09:52 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
Christians.

#sigh
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30-11-2016, 10:50 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-11-2016 09:06 AM)Aractus Wrote:  ...
It doesn't make them gullible, it simply means they believe in their theology.
...

Attributes which are not mutually exclusive.

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30-11-2016, 11:03 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-11-2016 09:06 AM)Aractus Wrote:  There is no valid reason to question the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth. If he didn't exist then who gave us the Parable of the Good Samaritan? If he didn't exist how is it possible that James knows the content of the SotM before it's written down in Matthew c. 85 AD? If he didn't exist, why would his followers invent a Roman crucifixion? It can be shown that the crucifixion of Jesus caused a crisis in his followers!

The discussion is a complete waste of time when you can attack the things about the Bible including the NT that are clearly problematic for Christians.

Could you provide links to an article that backs up and explains these assertions?

This seems like a very weak argument for a person's existence, what's wrong with demanding contemporary non-biblical sources?

Why would a story be proof of someone's existence? It's just a story, is that really what you consider good evidence?

I would think a reasonable view would be an agnostic stance, there really is no strong evidence for or against this person of Jesus. The scant evidence we have has obviously been altered and tampered with by biased individuals.

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30-11-2016, 11:19 AM (This post was last modified: 30-11-2016 11:23 AM by Full Circle.)
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-11-2016 02:23 PM)Ask21771 Wrote:  I mean what is the best evidence it's wrong

Christians? 30,000+ denominations.

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30-11-2016, 12:07 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-11-2016 09:47 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I've been trying like hell to get my fleet commander on STO to rename our fleet the "Stovo Corps".

Bowing

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