What is the best evidence against Christianity
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30-12-2016, 07:28 AM
What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 12:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  Ehrman is not a historian, he is a religious scholar.
No historian takes the Bible as history - only the religious do so.

So is that what scholars like Bart Ehrman do, accept historicity on blind faith?

And almost no historian believes that there was no historical Jesus.


Quote:No, asshole, you are the one that made this personal when the criticism became too severe for you.
Just stop the personal attacks and stick to the issues.

Lol, severe criticism? Is that what responses that amount to your momma is so fat are considered these days?

And secondly don't take any of my responses personally, I got nothing personally against, I'm sure you're a swell old dude. You might detest individuals like myself, but that feeling is not mutual.





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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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30-12-2016, 07:35 AM
What is the best evidence against Christianity
(29-12-2016 10:44 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  I'm not looking for 'Interpretations.'.

I would like you to provide 'Evidence'.

I already pointed out evidence, the new testament writings, the writings of Paul,who wrote an eyewitness account of meeting his brother and disciple, then writings of tacitus, Josephus, etc....


Now what you'll do is appeal your own unique interpretations of "evidence", and claim that this is not "evidence". Ain't that right?







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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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30-12-2016, 08:04 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
At work.

(30-12-2016 07:35 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(29-12-2016 10:44 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  I'm not looking for 'Interpretations.'.

I would like you to provide 'Evidence'.

I already pointed out evidence, the new testament writings, the writings of Paul,who wrote an eyewitness account of meeting his brother and disciple, then writings of tacitus, Josephus, etc....


Now what you'll do is appeal your own unique interpretations of "evidence", and claim that this is not "evidence". Ain't that right?

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No, again you misunderstand. Perhaps a different phrasing.

Consider

So.... up until now all you gave reference to, pointed to and aluded(sp?) to have been words. Written words in books and tomes. But just/only words.

What else are you or can you present as evidence?

Consider
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30-12-2016, 08:41 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 08:04 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  No, again you misunderstand. Perhaps a different phrasing.

Consider

So.... up until now all you gave reference to, pointed to and aluded(sp?) to have been words. Written words in books and tomes. But just/only words.

What else are you or can you present as evidence?

Consider

I'm fairly sure he understands. Hence the word games. When pressed on evidence and you have none, you redefine evidence so it does not matter. When pressed hard enough, some apologists start trying to redefine reality itself.

All they have are their words and their faith. Just like every other religion.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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30-12-2016, 08:53 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
ev·i·dence
noun
noun: evidence
1. The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

fact
noun: fact; plural noun: facts

1. A thing that is indisputably the case.

For something to be a fact it can't be disputable.

You can offer an argument against it but merely makes your claims a philosophical argument with valid or invalid premises.
Much the same way that flat earthers CAN offer arguments, but since they are easily refuted, that can't qualify as "disputing" anything.
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30-12-2016, 09:26 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 08:04 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  So.... up until now all you gave reference to, pointed to and aluded(sp?) to have been words. Written words in books and tomes. But just/only words.

What else are you or can you present as evidence?

Consider

I've pointed to a variety of evidence.

So what are you going to say now? Something along the line of according to your unique interpretation of evidence, that it's not evidence? Such as it's not evidence it's just words (i.e written sources) Or do you acknowledge that they're evidence?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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30-12-2016, 09:34 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 08:53 AM)KJW Wrote:  ev·i·dence
noun
noun: evidence
1. The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

fact
noun: fact; plural noun: facts

1. A thing that is indisputably the case.

For something to be a fact it can't be disputable.

Both the defense, and prosecution offer a variety of evidence in support of their own competing claims, and dispute it. And the fact that scientific claims based on evidence, are all falsifiable, indicates that they are disputable. You should note that your very definition indicates that evidence is also information, indicating whether a belief is true or not.

Quote:Much the same way that flat earthers CAN offer arguments, but since they are easily refuted, that can't qualify as "disputing" anything.

The flat earthers here would be those who believe Jesus didn't exist, in fact they share a variety of psychological commonalities with other conspiracy theory nuts. It's not a coincidence that the produces of a video series supporting 9/11 truthers, and Global Banking Conspiracies, attach themselves to Jesus does not exist crowd.

They're not easily disputed, in fact such groups are quite resilient to being disputed.You'll rarely ever succeed in convincing them that they're wrong about their views.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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30-12-2016, 09:49 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
At work.

(30-12-2016 09:26 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I've pointed to a variety of evidence.

So what are you going to say now? Something along the line of according to your unique interpretation of evidence, that it's not evidence? Such as it's not evidence it's just words (i.e written sources) Or do you acknowledge that they're evidence?

I am sorry I missed your post where you provide other evidence. Could you link back to it?

Being on a phone screen limits my posting/searching.

Edit: I've agreed that you have, indeed, posted words/referenced works of words. I am asking if you know of/have anything else.
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30-12-2016, 09:50 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 07:28 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(30-12-2016 12:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  Ehrman is not a historian, he is a religious scholar.
No historian takes the Bible as history - only the religious do so.

So is that what scholars like Bart Ehrman do, accept historicity on blind faith?

And almost no historian believes that there was no historical Jesus.


Quote:No, asshole, you are the one that made this personal when the criticism became too severe for you.
Just stop the personal attacks and stick to the issues.

Lol, severe criticism? Is that what responses that amount to your momma is so fat are considered these days?

And secondly don't take any of my responses personally, I got nothing personally against, I'm sure you're a swell old dude. You might detest individuals like myself, but that feeling is not mutual.





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The new testament are considered letters of faith written decades later. The anonymous writers who finally wrote the stories down on papyrus didn't even know Jesus. Paul never met Jesus except in a hallucination, perhaps because of epilepsy. These letters aren't biographies. They are stories.


Tacitus was reporting the stories he'd heard about Christians. Annals was written in 116 ACE, so 80 or so years after the alleged events took place. Tacitus also wrote about witches and witchcraft so using your logic, witches actually cast real spells on people.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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30-12-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 09:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  It's not a coincidence that the produces of a video series supporting 9/11 truthers, and Global Banking Conspiracies, attach themselves to Jesus does not exist crowd.

They're not easily disputed, in fact such groups are quite resilient to being disputed.You'll rarely ever succeed in convincing them that they're wrong about their views.

Hmm. I wonder if you can tell us what fallacy you employ there ?
Groups are not "disputed". Arguments are.
Did you actually graduate from 6th Grade ?

Scholars agree that "Paul" did not write all the letters of "Paul", and that many of them are combo jobs. You can't prove he wrote anything. The journeys as claimed in the letters, and Acts can't BOTH be true. They're evidence of nothing.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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