What is the best evidence against Christianity
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30-12-2016, 09:58 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 09:50 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  The new testament are considered letters of faith written decades later. The anonymous writers who finally wrote the stories down on papyrus didn't even know Jesus. Paul never met Jesus except in a hallucination, perhaps because of epilepsy. These letters aren't biographies. They are stories.

The gospels are compilations of a variety of sources that long predate them. While Paul never met Jesus, we have his first hand account of meeting his brother, and disciples.

Quote:Tacitus was reporting the stories he'd heard about Christians.

No when Tactius wrote of Jesus death at the hands of Pilate, he was stating it as a matter of fact, not prefaced with Christians believed he died under Pilate, or according to their stories, etc...

For whatever reason, Tacitus treated the death of Jesus under the hands of Pilate as a matter of historical fact, and not in manner of expressing what other's believed but he himself did not hold.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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30-12-2016, 10:00 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 09:55 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Scholars agree that "Paul" did not write all the letters of "Paul", and that many of them are combo jobs. You can't prove he wrote anything. The journeys as claimed in the letters, and Acts can't BOTH be true. They're evidence of nothing.

And we're not even talking about the disputed letters of Paul, but the ones generally regarded by scholars as authentic.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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30-12-2016, 10:05 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 09:49 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  I am sorry I missed your post where you provide other evidence. Could you link back to it?

Look at your post 243, where you quoted me. Where initially asked for evidence, and I provided a variety of evidence.

Now you seem to be asking for other evidence on top of this, but have failed to indicate or acknowledge that I provided evidence as per your initial request.

Either that or let me witness you appeal to your own unique definition of evidence, to argue that they're not evidence.

Quote:Edit: I've agreed that you have, indeed, posted words/referenced works of words. I am asking if you know of/have anything else.

You need to agree those written sources are evidence, or just show us your appeal to your unique definition of the term to exclude them.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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30-12-2016, 10:10 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 10:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(30-12-2016 09:55 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Scholars agree that "Paul" did not write all the letters of "Paul", and that many of them are combo jobs. You can't prove he wrote anything. The journeys as claimed in the letters, and Acts can't BOTH be true. They're evidence of nothing.

And we're not even talking about the disputed letters of Paul, but the ones generally regarded by scholars as authentic.

Neither am I.
The journeys in the UNDISPUTED letters do not agree with Acts.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-12-2016, 10:12 AM
What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 10:10 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-12-2016 10:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And we're not even talking about the disputed letters of Paul, but the ones generally regarded by scholars as authentic.

Neither am I.
The journeys in the UNDISPUTED letters do not agree with Acts.


Here you are again trying to erect a strawman, I never said anything about Acts.


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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30-12-2016, 10:17 AM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2016 10:22 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 10:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You need to agree those written sources are evidence, or just show us your appeal to your unique definition of the term to exclude them.

No, you need to agree that we are all thetans (well not you, you're one of the low men in yellow hats) brought to Earth by Xenu 75 million years ago in Douglas DC-8s where we made the humans our pod people. So it is written. So saith the Hubbard. The Hubbard texts provide the true evidence. Historians are unanimous in their certainty that L.Ron did in fact exist.

#sigh
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30-12-2016, 10:19 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 09:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Both the defense, and prosecution offer a variety of evidence in support of their own competing claims, and dispute it. And the fact that scientific claims based on evidence, are all falsifiable, indicates that they are disputable. You should note that your very definition indicates that evidence is also information, indicating whether a belief is true or not.

So if no evidence is sustainable then neither is the evidence that you accept to support your god.

You say science supports the bible, the historians and archeologists support the bible and scholars support the bible.

Then when we point out the many places that they don't, then science is inaccurate.

When we press you for evidence, you do the following:
Attempt to redefine the word.
Claim that we would not accept any evidence not matter what was offered.
Claim that evidence itself is unreliable.

You do NOT present any evidence.

You can come here for whatever reasons you want. You can study, provoke, whatever.

But when push came to shove, when you were called to defend your god, you failed.

(30-12-2016 09:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The flat earthers here would be those who believe Jesus didn't exist, in fact they share a variety of psychological commonalities with other conspiracy theory nuts. It's not a coincidence that the produces of a video series supporting 9/11 truthers, and Global Banking Conspiracies, attach themselves to Jesus does not exist crowd.

They're not easily disputed, in fact such groups are quite resilient to being disputed.You'll rarely ever succeed in convincing them that they're wrong about their views.

Attacking those asking the questions?

Why didn't your god provide you with evidence?

Why didn't your god send you a vision with the words that would convince us?

Why do you resort to such dishonest tactics?

When someone asks me a question that I cannot answer, I have no problem admitting so. I have no fears of finding the answers. I have no problems admitting when I am wrong.

What I do not do is insult the questioner, redefine the words, and the other dishonest tactics that you have employed.

Your response is testimony enough about the nature of faith and why evidence is required.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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30-12-2016, 10:22 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 09:58 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  For whatever reason, Tacitus treated the death of Jesus under the hands of Pilate as a matter of historical fact...

Is there any evidence that this was so? How can you be sure that he didn't report it from an unnamed third party—or just hearsay?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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30-12-2016, 10:23 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(30-12-2016 10:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(30-12-2016 10:10 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Neither am I.
The journeys in the UNDISPUTED letters do not agree with Acts.


Here you are again trying to erect a strawman, I never said anything about Acts.


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Of course you didn't. You CLAIMED Paul was "evidence". The Christian community ITSELF did not buy the "evidence" you claim.
The "evidence" is rejected and DIFFERENT and INCONSISTENT in Acts. Do try to put 2 and 2 together. I realize it's hard for you.
Still waiting for you to name that fallacy.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-12-2016, 10:37 AM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
Tomasia sure does a lot of work on these forums. I wonder what his objective is if he has one.

Hey Tommy do you just like arguing or are you actually trying to persuade people of something?

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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