What is the best evidence against Christianity
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03-01-2017, 07:25 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
The best evidence to me is the fact that Christ predicted he would return in the lifetime of his disciples, & he never came.
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03-01-2017, 07:52 PM
What is the best evidence against Christianity
(03-01-2017 06:56 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  So... the only thing you have are the written works?

NOTHING else?


As I said we have nothing other than a variety of different written sources, both Christian and non- Christian, all of which serve as evidence.





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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-01-2017, 08:04 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(03-01-2017 07:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  As I said we have nothing other than a variety of different written sources, both Christian and non- Christian, all of which serve as evidence.

Okay.

So, you have nothing other than the written and copes words as verification for your position?

You are relying on a very circular seeming argument.

These words say they are true, hence these words are true.
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03-01-2017, 08:14 PM
What is the best evidence against Christianity
(03-01-2017 08:04 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Okay.

So, you have nothing other than the written and copes words as verification for your position?

You are relying on a very circular seeming argument.

These words say they are true, hence these words are true.

What?!!?

I'm not ever sure what you're even trying to argue here, that accepting written sources as evidence of something being true is circular? That we shouldn't accept written sources as evidence?

What point are you actually trying to make?





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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-01-2017, 08:22 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
In what circumstance would a collection of texts serve as sufficient evidence of divinity?

Under that "logic" (oh the irony...) then all that is required for divinity is:

A collection of texts that state that the character is a god.
The texts do not have to agree with another.
The texts do not have to have been written by the same author.
The texts do not have to have been written in the same time period.
Each author is allowed to put his own words into the character's mouth.
Authors and editors are allowed to revise the texts at will.
Such revisions are permitted for political, theological and personal reasons.
Such texts are allowed to contain mistakes, mis-translations and typographical errors.
Criticisms of the texts are forbidden, or highly stigmatized socially.
Questioning of the texts is strongly discouraged.
Understanding the texts is not necessary nor is even reading said texts.

Under that logic then everything from Mormonism to Nazism to goddamn Spiderman is true.

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03-01-2017, 08:25 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(03-01-2017 08:14 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 08:04 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Okay.

So, you have nothing other than the written and copes words as verification for your position?

You are relying on a very circular seeming argument.

These words say they are true, hence these words are true.

What?!!?

I'm not ever sure what you're even trying to argue here, that accepting written sources as evidence of something being true is circular? That we shouldn't accept written sources as evidence?

What point are you actually trying to make?

What part don't you understand?

Quote:These words say they are true, hence these words are true.

This is what you are saying. The bible is true because the bible says that the bible is true. That is the definition of a circular argument.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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03-01-2017, 08:54 PM
What is the best evidence against Christianity
(03-01-2017 08:25 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  This is what you are saying. The bible is true because the bible says that the bible is true. That is the definition of a circular argument.

No that's not what I said at all. That's just your straw man.






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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-01-2017, 08:55 PM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2017 08:59 PM by Peebothuhul.)
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(03-01-2017 08:14 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 08:04 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Okay.

So, you have nothing other than the written and copes words as verification for your position?

You are relying on a very circular seeming argument.

These words say they are true, hence these words are true.

What?!!?

I'm not ever sure what you're even trying to argue here, that accepting written sources as evidence of something being true is circular? That we shouldn't accept written sources as evidence?

What point are you actually trying to make?

Initially I was not trying to make any points.

I was engaging with yourself in a conversation.

I was asking you questions and thence clarifications on your position.

Indeed, accepting what is written in texts is one thing.

The problem comes when there is nothing to verify the veracity/actuality of those texts.

I am simply pointing out that, other than all the myriad copied texts you have (And have admitted) that there is only copied tests to attest to some deity.

If the only power a deity has is to be recorded second hand in words... then there isn't much of a deity there, is there?

Fatbaldhobbit outlines the problem with your admission.

(03-01-2017 08:25 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
Quote:These words say they are true, hence these words are true.

This is what you are saying. The bible is true because the bible says that the bible is true. That is the definition of a circular argument.
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03-01-2017, 09:40 PM
What is the best evidence against Christianity
(03-01-2017 08:55 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  The problem comes when there is nothing to verify the veracity/actuality of those texts.

Except a variety of other texts. When you have the Gospels writing of Jesus having a brother named James, confirmed by a first hand account of someone who met his brother, than again by a non- Christian historian, writing of James death, confirming his relationship to Jesus. That leaves very little room to argue against the veracity of such a historical detail.

Quote:I am simply pointing out that, other than all the myriad copied texts you have (And have admitted) that there is only copied tests to attest to some deity.

No I pointed to the texts as confirming historicity not divinity. And you and I will have quite a different understanding of what divinity and God mean.

Quote:If the only power a deity has is to be recorded second hand in words... then there isn't much of a deity there,

Perhaps not for the fantasy being/superman like God atheists seem to be in search for.

Far as I'm concerned any God that's cannot be written about, or spoken of, through the messy means of being human, is not a god worth believing, he's just a cheap parlor trick, a spectacle atheists seem far more interested in than believers. Give me a God who reveals himself in a defeated body of a man, in flesh and blood. A God that's relatable, and not a distant and impersonal idea.


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-01-2017, 09:51 PM
RE: What is the best evidence against Christianity
(03-01-2017 09:40 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Give me a God who reveals himself in a defeated body of a man, in flesh and blood. A God that's relatable, and not a distant and impersonal idea.

That's not the what a messiah was supposed to be.
Your cult cooked that up to deal with an execution.

You call a god that could cure diseases, but doesn't, "relate-able "?
I call that god a fraud.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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