What is the definition of God?
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05-10-2016, 10:56 PM
What is the definition of God?
Here's one to get theists thinking: define "God". As distinct from all other gods.
Watch them at first jump in with all the boring superlatives, then make some rules;

Don't describe its supposed qualities like "the creator of the universe", "love", "all powerful", "the light of my life" etc. Define what your god is, or what any god is for that matter. A spirit is not an answer either, that just leads to "what's a spirit?"

If you can't give a logical definition, it logically can't exist. Atheists are welcome to suggestions as well, with the same criteria.
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06-10-2016, 05:44 AM
RE: What is the definition of God?
This is a surefire debate stopper.

If you're going to argue about 'god', you first need to define it. However, if you want the conversation to be anything more than hypothetical, you need a meaningful definition; in essence, the definition needs to be falsifiable. If their definition for their god is not falsifiable, then it is meaningless. Defining a god as 'love' is as meaningless as defining your god as an invisible pink unicorn, or sentient universe transcending pasta.

"Falsifiability or refutability of a statement, hypothesis, or theory is the inherent possibility that it can be proved false. A statement is called falsifiable if it is possible to conceive of an observation or an argument which negates the statement in question."

So either they'll have to define their god in such a way as to utterly neuter it beyond all recognition, or they'll be forced to face the fact that they do not know anything at all about their god; that it's all ephemeral bullshit with no way to determine the validity of any such claims (including all of the contradictory ones).

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06-10-2016, 08:59 AM
RE: What is the definition of God?
(05-10-2016 10:56 PM)Firefighter01 Wrote:  If you can't give a logical definition, it logically can't exist.

How does inability to explain something logically prove it doesn't exist? It may show that the person trying to explain it lacks the knowledge or intelligence to explain it, but something's existence or non existence is independent of the success of our efforts to prove it exists.

Logic is a tool that non-omniscient beings can use to learn more. All logic is dependent on first accepting certain axioms that we already know to be true and making inferences from them to obtain more truth. God doesn't need logic because he is omniscient.

I define God as the one who created us and by reason of his creation is our owner and has an absolute right to our obedience. He has provided proof of his existence through his creation and if we are willing to accept this evidence we can use it as a basis for logically learning more about him. Life is too complex to have come into existence apart from the intervention of an intelligent creator. Those who acknowledge God's existence and are willing to submit to him will receive more knowledge.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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06-10-2016, 09:37 AM
RE: What is the definition of God?
(06-10-2016 08:59 AM)theophilus Wrote:  I define God as the one who created us and by reason of his creation is our owner and has an absolute right to our obedience.

You have no evidence that we were 'created'.

Quote:He has provided proof of his existence through his creation and if we are willing to accept this evidence

It is ignorant to accept that as evidence.

Quote:we can use it as a basis for logically learning more about him. Life is too complex to have come into existence apart from the intervention of an intelligent creator.

Argument from incredulity. Very weak.

Quote:Those who acknowledge God's existence and are willing to submit to him will receive more knowledge.

How? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-10-2016, 12:56 PM
RE: What is the definition of God?
(05-10-2016 10:56 PM)Firefighter01 Wrote:  Here's one to get theists thinking: define "God". As distinct from all other gods.
Watch them at first jump in with all the boring superlatives, then make some rules;

Don't describe its supposed qualities like "the creator of the universe", "love", "all powerful", "the light of my life" etc. Define what your god is, or what any god is for that matter. A spirit is not an answer either, that just leads to "what's a spirit?"

If you can't give a logical definition, it logically can't exist. Atheists are welcome to suggestions as well, with the same criteria.
If you are afraid to call your god or leader by its own name, then that is red flag right there.
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06-10-2016, 01:03 PM
RE: What is the definition of God?
(06-10-2016 08:59 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(05-10-2016 10:56 PM)Firefighter01 Wrote:  If you can't give a logical definition, it logically can't exist.

How does inability to explain something logically prove it doesn't exist? It may show that the person trying to explain it lacks the knowledge or intelligence to explain it, but something's existence or non existence is independent of the success of our efforts to prove it exists.

Logic is a tool that non-omniscient beings can use to learn more. All logic is dependent on first accepting certain axioms that we already know to be true and making inferences from them to obtain more truth. God doesn't need logic because he is omniscient.

I define God as the one who created us and by reason of his creation is our owner and has an absolute right to our obedience. He has provided proof of his existence through his creation and if we are willing to accept this evidence we can use it as a basis for logically learning more about him. Life is too complex to have come into existence apart from the intervention of an intelligent creator. Those who acknowledge God's existence and are willing to submit to him will receive more knowledge.
Your definition of 'god' is simply unsubstantiated claims of what 'god' has done. Not a definition of 'god'. Defining a rabbit by using the term something that eats vegetables and delivers chocolate to kids on easter is an equivalent statement to yours.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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06-10-2016, 02:07 PM
RE: What is the definition of God?
I've read of one definition by someone on another forum that I liked, god is- an unnecessary assumption.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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06-10-2016, 04:23 PM
RE: What is the definition of God?
(06-10-2016 08:59 AM)theophilus Wrote:  I define God as the one who created us

My parents created me and your parents created you. Do you consider them gods?

(06-10-2016 08:59 AM)theophilus Wrote:  and by reason of his creation is our owner and has an absolute right to our obedience.

Why do you feel so strongly to being subservient?

If an alien race came down and showed that it was stronger, smarter, and more advanced then you. Would that make you want to be their pet?

(06-10-2016 08:59 AM)theophilus Wrote:  He has provided proof of his existence through his creation and if we are willing to accept this evidence we can use it as a basis for logically learning more about him.

Here's a thread I created with other creation stories. About how the world/universe came into being. Are any of these other gods that you were raised to believe were true immediately ignored by you as simply being faire tails. If so what method do you use to rule out those gods.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...on-Stories

(06-10-2016 08:59 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Life is too complex to have come into existence apart from the intervention of an intelligent creator.

Wouldn't it be less complex? Wouldn't a creator of all knowledge and power be able to come up with the simplest way to make things?

And this just brings up that same old question i'm sure you've heard before. What created the creator? If you can think of a being that simple came out of nothing or always was. Why when this idea applied to the universe is it unsound?

(06-10-2016 08:59 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Those who acknowledge God's existence and are willing to submit to him will receive more knowledge.

Obviously this isn't true. Because if that was the case you would have us all stupefied with your astounding intellect. Instead your ideas are easily dismantled. And you yourself had said How does inability to explain something logically prove it doesn't exist? It may show that the person trying to explain it lacks the knowledge or intelligence to explain it, but something's existence or non existence is independent of the success of our efforts to prove it exists. You acknowledge you didn't have the answers. You've submitted to him and yet lack knowledge.

That's really a definition. And how did you come to that conclusion.

If you asked me what a tree was. And I responded.

It a thing of wonder that provides clean air. That doesn't tell you what to look for. Even if I expaned upon it and said it has leaves. From that distription would you be able to compare on contrast from any other plants?

So when applying this to the god description, how would one differentiate from any of other claims of creators.

I've see people that believe the universe was created by dragons, and with the help of elves and faeries. If these things created the universe would that suffeciante for you to call them gods? Or if on that bases alone would that be enough convince you that fairies and dragons were real?

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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06-10-2016, 04:57 PM
RE: What is the definition of God?
It's going to take more than that to get theists thinking.
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06-10-2016, 05:13 PM
RE: What is the definition of God?
Ever see the movie Drop Dead Fred? Like that, except an omnipotent supernatural homicidal psychopath.

'Murican Canadian
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