What is the explaination for everything?
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09-02-2014, 07:34 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 12:28 AM)Astreja Wrote:  "Proof" is for mathematics. The rest of science relies not on absolute proof, but on evidence.

What I find telling is that we haven't found any physical evidence of interactions between the natural universe and the so-called "supernatural" realm. Admittedly this may be due to a lack of instrumentation for measuring supernatural things, but at very least I'd expect to see something odd happening on the natural side of the event, much as the visible phenomenon of lightning is associated with electricity.

Everything we look at seems to be of natural origins. Every "miracle" that is examined with due diligence appears to be merely statistically unlikely rather than an impossibility.

If there is a god out there, where is it hiding and why can't we find any trace of it? And why bother looking if it exists but doesn't want us to find it?

Christian friend: "Then what would be your definition of a miracle?"
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09-02-2014, 07:48 PM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2014 07:56 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 07:34 PM)fmudd Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 12:28 AM)Astreja Wrote:  "Proof" is for mathematics. The rest of science relies not on absolute proof, but on evidence.

What I find telling is that we haven't found any physical evidence of interactions between the natural universe and the so-called "supernatural" realm. Admittedly this may be due to a lack of instrumentation for measuring supernatural things, but at very least I'd expect to see something odd happening on the natural side of the event, much as the visible phenomenon of lightning is associated with electricity.

Everything we look at seems to be of natural origins. Every "miracle" that is examined with due diligence appears to be merely statistically unlikely rather than an impossibility.

If there is a god out there, where is it hiding and why can't we find any trace of it? And why bother looking if it exists but doesn't want us to find it?

Christian friend: "Then what would be your definition of a miracle?"

Too bad your "Christian friend" (wink wink) never took a course on the Bible.
A "miracle" is a perfectly natural "event" in which a believer believes she/he sees "the hand of God" operating. A "miracle" is not (Biblically ...according to scholars) an "unnatural" event. It's simply a matter of "belief". In general , there are no events which have no natural explanations. Some events are "improbable". No event is a "miracle".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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09-02-2014, 07:54 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 07:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Too bad you "Christian friend" (wink wink) never took a course on the Bible.
A "miracle" is a perfectly natural "event" in which a believer believes she/he sees "the hand of God" operating. A "miracle" is not (Biblically ...according to scholars) an "unnatural" event. It's simply a matter of "belief". In general , there are no events which have no natural explanations. Some events are "improbable". No event is a "miracle".

Christian friend: "Really? Why not check out the miracles put forth in the Bible by Jesus?

If you don't accept those, check out some of the miracles performed in order for a person to be considered for sainthood. "
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09-02-2014, 08:02 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 07:54 PM)fmudd Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 07:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Too bad you "Christian friend" (wink wink) never took a course on the Bible.
A "miracle" is a perfectly natural "event" in which a believer believes she/he sees "the hand of God" operating. A "miracle" is not (Biblically ...according to scholars) an "unnatural" event. It's simply a matter of "belief". In general , there are no events which have no natural explanations. Some events are "improbable". No event is a "miracle".

Christian friend: "Really? Why not check out the miracles put forth in the Bible by Jesus?

If you don't accept those, check out some of the miracles performed in order for a person to be considered for sainthood. "


The "miracles" in the ancient Near East were ubiquitous. There were at least 20 preachers running around at the time of Jebus, ALL seen to be "doing miracles". The gospels are not "history". They are faith documents. They are writings of believers, for believers, (for use in church services) to remind themselves what they already believed. As far as "miracles" for sainthood, you mean like the French nun for JohnPaul II who was said to be "cured" of Parkinson's Disease, who relapsed ? Hahaha. That "miracle" ? There is NO unexplained "miracle" event. Highly improbable events happen all the time.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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09-02-2014, 08:03 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 07:36 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Yes it was an honest response but you still don't seem to get it. I explained it to you pretty clearly. Nobody is saying there is no god. Everybody is saying there is no evidence for god so the claim can not be accepted. If I said I could turn into the Incredible Hulk would you believe me? Would you ask for evidence? You would, if you are rational reject my claim. Would that be faith that tells you I can't make the transformation? To reject something because of the lack of evidence is not faith based!
Now, if you say atheism is faith based again my head will pop.

Christian friend: "I think you are misunderstanding the definition of faith-based. At some point, the atheists say's 'i don't know' or 'it just is' - and they accept it as fact and move on with the belief that:

1. Science is right
2. There is no god.

Once a person accepts something without proof as the truth....It becomes faith based. "
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09-02-2014, 08:13 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 08:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The "miracles" in the ancient Near East were ubiquitous. There were at least 20 preachers running around at the time of Jebus, ALL seen to be "doing miracles". The gospels are not "history". They are faith documents. They are writings of believers, for believers, (for use in church services) to remind themselves what they already believed. As far as "miracles" for sainthood, you mean like the French nun for JohnPaul II who was said to be "cured" of Parkinson's Disease, who relapsed ? Hahaha. That "miracle" ? There is NO unexplained "miracle" event. Highly improbable events happen all the time.

Christian friend: "First, a blanket dismissal of all of the miracle in the bible, then you call out one 'error' but then poo poo all the others? I suppose having ONE that didn't prove to be a miracle actually makes a good case for the others actually being miracles, huh?"
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09-02-2014, 08:16 PM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2014 08:41 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 08:13 PM)fmudd Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 08:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The "miracles" in the ancient Near East were ubiquitous. There were at least 20 preachers running around at the time of Jebus, ALL seen to be "doing miracles". The gospels are not "history". They are faith documents. They are writings of believers, for believers, (for use in church services) to remind themselves what they already believed. As far as "miracles" for sainthood, you mean like the French nun for JohnPaul II who was said to be "cured" of Parkinson's Disease, who relapsed ? Hahaha. That "miracle" ? There is NO unexplained "miracle" event. Highly improbable events happen all the time.

Christian friend: "First, a blanket dismissal of all of the miracle in the bible, then you call out one 'error' but then poo poo all the others? I suppose having ONE that didn't prove to be a miracle actually makes a good case for the others actually being miracles, huh?"

So then....your "friend" actually believes in all the miracles of Simon of Perea, Jesus of Gemala, philo's Jesus, and ALL the other miracle workers ? Or "just" in the miracles of Jebus of Nazareth ? Which is it. All miracles ? Or no miracles ?

Where EXACTLY did your "friend" study the Bible ?

Name ONE event that IS a "miracle.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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09-02-2014, 08:19 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
I have faith in the absence of leprechauns .

Now why does that sound stupid, oh that's right.
Its because it is stupid !!.

Your logic is that everyone including theists have faith that every thing that's presented to them without evidence requires faith to disbelieve it.

So we all have an infinite number of faiths, congratulations on the most asinine post I have read this year.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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09-02-2014, 08:26 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 08:03 PM)fmudd Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 07:36 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Yes it was an honest response but you still don't seem to get it. I explained it to you pretty clearly. Nobody is saying there is no god. Everybody is saying there is no evidence for god so the claim can not be accepted. If I said I could turn into the Incredible Hulk would you believe me? Would you ask for evidence? You would, if you are rational reject my claim. Would that be faith that tells you I can't make the transformation? To reject something because of the lack of evidence is not faith based!
Now, if you say atheism is faith based again my head will pop.

Christian friend: "I think you are misunderstanding the definition of faith-based. At some point, the atheists say's 'i don't know' or 'it just is' - and they accept it as fact and move on with the belief that:

1. Science is right
2. There is no god.

Once a person accepts something without proof as the truth....It becomes faith based. "
Holy fuck! Seriously? No. There is no way. You must be fucking with me!
I won't speak for anyone else but I have not accepted as fact that there is no god. I simply reject the claim that there is a god! I'm doubting there is a Christian friend with you but if there is ask this person why s/he can't get this. It's not fucking hard! And at this point I don't know why I'm bothering with you. I mean it's obvious that you only want to spout the same bullshit regardless of how many times or in how many ways it's explained to you.
Now, my patience is worn thin so please fuck off!
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09-02-2014, 08:28 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 08:13 PM)fmudd Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 08:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The "miracles" in the ancient Near East were ubiquitous. There were at least 20 preachers running around at the time of Jebus, ALL seen to be "doing miracles". The gospels are not "history". They are faith documents. They are writings of believers, for believers, (for use in church services) to remind themselves what they already believed. As far as "miracles" for sainthood, you mean like the French nun for JohnPaul II who was said to be "cured" of Parkinson's Disease, who relapsed ? Hahaha. That "miracle" ? There is NO unexplained "miracle" event. Highly improbable events happen all the time.

Christian friend: "First, a blanket dismissal of all of the miracle in the bible, then you call out one 'error' but then poo poo all the others? I suppose having ONE that didn't prove to be a miracle actually makes a good case for the others actually being miracles, huh?"

I do poo poo ALL miracles. So did your "friend's" *savior*.
Mattew 16:4 Jesus: "This is an evil generation. It seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet."

I see neither you, nor your "friend" ever read the Babble.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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