What is the explaination for everything?
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10-02-2014, 12:06 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 11:54 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Perhaps you should read up on the origins of Santa Claus. Just saying. In fact learning how myths develop and evolve might help. I don't think you will but you should.

Christian Friend: "Still a false equivalence. The idea of Santa Claus (not to be confused with the story of St. Nicholas) was always represented as a story to kids and never to be worshiped."
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10-02-2014, 12:07 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 10:53 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Fine, instead of santa claus, we will say Zeus. Your answer?

Christian friend: "Another bad example, in both cases we are talking about beliefs in a higher power. So, I would say yes, I do believe in "Zeus" but that he was misrepresented. His actual representation is God and as we get closer to God perhaps our understanding of him will change even more. Science is coming around on this ever so slowly as well.

Man has always believed in a higher power than themselves and you bringing up Zeus proves that even more."
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10-02-2014, 12:16 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:04 AM)fmudd Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 10:53 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Fine, instead of santa claus, we will say Zeus. Your answer?

Christian friend: "Another bad example, in both cases we are talking about beliefs in a higher power. So, I would say yes, I do believe in "Zeus" but that he was misrepresented. His actual representation is God and as we get closer to God perhaps our understanding of him will change even more. Science is coming around on this ever so slowly as well.

Man has always believed in a higher power than themselves and you bringing up Zeus proves that even more."

So disbelief in Zeus is faith, disbelief in Scientology is faith . ?
Is your cat named Faith ?

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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10-02-2014, 12:19 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:04 AM)fmudd Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 10:53 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Fine, instead of santa claus, we will say Zeus. Your answer?

Christian friend: "Another bad example, in both cases we are talking about beliefs in a higher power. So, I would say yes, I do believe in "Zeus" but that he was misrepresented. His actual representation is God and as we get closer to God perhaps our understanding of him will change even more. Science is coming around on this ever so slowly as well.

Man has always believed in a higher power than themselves and you bringing up Zeus proves that even more."

No.

In both cases we are talking about man's inability to understand the universe. Zeus is an idea that came from a former idea, and so on, and so on, that still misrepresented and anthromoporphized nature because we couldn't understand it. The christian god is only the latest version of the god of the gaps and he is shrinking at an alarming pace as we discover the who, what, where's and why's of the reason for religion and superstitious thinking.

It's a strange thing, a revelation if you will, when you can come to realize and accept that these myths cannot be true, on a thousand different levels. Was there a being so grand as to create the cosmos? It would be a wonder to behold such a being, but the pathetic, spiteful, vengeful, vindictive and theologically impossible Yahweh is far from what such a being would have to be that to believe in it is ultimately laughable. The christian god is demonstrably a human construct, as is every other concept of god before it. I don't deny the possibility of a first mover, but you're going to have to do better than the bible or any other religion to make it mean anything other than a wonder of possibilities.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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10-02-2014, 12:22 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:16 AM)sporehux Wrote:  
(10-02-2014 12:04 AM)fmudd Wrote:  Christian friend: "Another bad example, in both cases we are talking about beliefs in a higher power. So, I would say yes, I do believe in "Zeus" but that he was misrepresented. His actual representation is God and as we get closer to God perhaps our understanding of him will change even more. Science is coming around on this ever so slowly as well.

Man has always believed in a higher power than themselves and you bringing up Zeus proves that even more."

So disbelief in Zeus is faith, disbelief in Scientology is faith . ?
Is your cat named Faith ?

Christian Friend: "This is why it is important to separate our discussion into two points. Before we talk about the most accurate representation of this higher power we need to establish whether the higher power exists.

That is why these notions of Zeus/Thor/Buddha/etc. come after we first establish whether there is a higher power or not.

Because you may claim there were "3,000" different deities.

The correct response is that those are 3,000 different representations of the same higher power.

Let's start there."
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10-02-2014, 12:26 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(09-02-2014 10:48 PM)fmudd Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 10:37 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Irrelevant.
My position on god and your position on Santa Claus are exactly the same. You do not accept the claim that Santa Claus exists. By your logic that is a faith based position.
You are either lying or suffering from cognitive dissonance...
Edited

Christian Friend: "Answered. This is a false comparison that people are presenting and resting their hats on."
No it's not. You only want to believe that because you pride is preventing you from admitting you are wrong! You do not know that Santa Claus doesn't exist. But you do not believe he exists. You would reject my claim that he does exist. That must be(by your logic)faith based. The origin of Santa Claus is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what claim I reject.
You have been asked about Zeus. I will ask if you accept these claims. Muhammed, while in a cave alone, was approached by the angel(if I remember correctly) Gabriel. The angel for 23 years would recite what would be the Quran to Muhammed? Muhammad recited what he was made to memorize to literate folks so the message could be written down. The Quran the inherent word of god. Muhammad is gods greatest prophet? Muhammad split the moon. Muhammad left earth and ascended into heaven on the back of a strange winged creature.
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10-02-2014, 12:28 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:19 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  No.

In both cases we are talking about man's inability to understand the universe. Zeus is an idea that came from a former idea, and so on, and so on, that still misrepresented and anthromoporphized nature because we couldn't understand it. The christian god is only the latest version of the god of the gaps and he is shrinking at an alarming pace as we discover the who, what, where's and why's of the reason for religion and superstitious thinking.

It's a strange thing, a revelation if you will, when you can come to realize and accept that these myths cannot be true, on a thousand different levels. Was there a being so grand as to create the cosmos? It would be a wonder to behold such a being, but the pathetic, spiteful, vengeful, vindictive and theologically impossible Yahweh is far from what such a being would have to be that to believe in it is ultimately laughable. The christian god is demonstrably a human construct, as is every other concept of god before it. I don't deny the possibility of a first mover, but you're going to have to do better than the bible or any other religion to make it mean anything other than a wonder of possibilities.

Christian Friend: "Now we are getting closer; this is why I attempted to stay away from the Bible mostly when talking to you (as in all forum members) and fmudd.

I would agree with you and most people here if we were to all come to an agreement that there was a higher power but that perhaps we need a better understanding. It is my belief that the Bible so far has presented the clearest representation of this higher power but I am also open to interpretations that bring us closer to this higher power."
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10-02-2014, 12:31 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:26 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  No it's not. You only want to believe that because you pride is preventing you from admitting you are wrong! You do not know that Santa Claus doesn't exist. But you do not believe he exists. You would reject my claim that he does exist. That must be(by your logic)faith based. The origin of Santa Claus is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what claim I reject.
You have been asked about Zeus. I will ask if you accept these claims. Muhammed, while in a cave alone, was approached by the angel(if I remember correctly) Gabriel. The angel for 23 years would recite what would be the Quran to Muhammed? Muhammad recited what he was made to memorize to literate folks so the message could be written down. The Quran the inherent word of god. Muhammad is gods greatest prophet? Muhammad split the moon. Muhammad left earth and ascended into heaven on the back of a strange winged creature.

Christian Friend: "I answered on Zeus and it will be the same answer for Muhammad. First, realize Muhammad never claimed to be divine; he ultimately claimed to worship the same God the Christians and Jews worshiped.

So, for Greek/Roman Mythology, Islam, and Christianity: same God, different presentations.

What we would have to do is narrow down which characteristics that God may or may not have and go from there.

But before we do that we have to come together and decide on whether there is indeed a God or not."
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10-02-2014, 12:34 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:04 AM)fmudd Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 10:53 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Fine, instead of santa claus, we will say Zeus. Your answer?

Christian friend: "Another bad example, in both cases we are talking about beliefs in a higher power. So, I would say yes, I do believe in "Zeus" but that he was misrepresented. His actual representation is God and as we get closer to God perhaps our understanding of him will change even more. Science is coming around on this ever so slowly as well.

Man has always believed in a higher power than themselves and you bringing up Zeus proves that even more."
So then you are not a Christian. Or would it be more correct to say there is no Christian friend with you. It seems there is a great deal of dishonesty oozing from your posts.
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10-02-2014, 12:38 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:34 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  So then you are not a Christian. Or would it be more correct to say there is no Christian friend with you. It seems there is a great deal of dishonesty oozing from your posts.

Christian friend: "Or, more like you are misunderstanding what Christianity is and what I believe. Just because I believe in the specific presentation of God as presented in the Bible doesn't mean that I believe Zeus wasn't God.

False equivalence.

The Greeks and Romans believed in the same higher power we as Christians do; they believed in one presentation and I believe in another.

Same higher power."
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