What is the explaination for everything?
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10-02-2014, 12:39 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:31 AM)fmudd Wrote:  
(10-02-2014 12:26 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  No it's not. You only want to believe that because you pride is preventing you from admitting you are wrong! You do not know that Santa Claus doesn't exist. But you do not believe he exists. You would reject my claim that he does exist. That must be(by your logic)faith based. The origin of Santa Claus is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what claim I reject.
You have been asked about Zeus. I will ask if you accept these claims. Muhammed, while in a cave alone, was approached by the angel(if I remember correctly) Gabriel. The angel for 23 years would recite what would be the Quran to Muhammed? Muhammad recited what he was made to memorize to literate folks so the message could be written down. The Quran the inherent word of god. Muhammad is gods greatest prophet? Muhammad split the moon. Muhammad left earth and ascended into heaven on the back of a strange winged creature.

Christian Friend: "I answered on Zeus and it will be the same answer for Muhammad. First, realize Muhammad never claimed to be divine; he ultimately claimed to worship the same God the Christians and Jews worshiped.

So, for Greek/Roman Mythology, Islam, and Christianity: same God, different presentations.

What we would have to do is narrow down which characteristics that God may or may not have and go from there.

But before we do that we have to come together and decide on whether there is indeed a God or not."
Whether Muhammad claimed divinity or not is irrelevant as is which god he worshiped. There are extraordinary claims made and I asked you if you accept them. Answer the question!
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10-02-2014, 12:42 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:38 AM)fmudd Wrote:  
(10-02-2014 12:34 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  So then you are not a Christian. Or would it be more correct to say there is no Christian friend with you. It seems there is a great deal of dishonesty oozing from your posts.

Christian friend: "Or, more like you are misunderstanding what Christianity is and what I believe. Just because I believe in the specific presentation of God as presented in the Bible doesn't mean that I believe Zeus wasn't God.

False equivalence.

The Greeks and Romans believed in the same higher power we as Christians do; they believed in one presentation and I believe in another.

Same higher power."

So what was god talking about when he demanded you not have any other gods before him? Was he talking about all those other gods that just happened to be him?
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10-02-2014, 12:43 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
I'd like an answer to my post.

Oh, and btw, it's not the same to believe in a higher power than to believe in a certain and well defined god. We can actually disprove the existence of gods when they are well defined. But theist tend to be so pesky with their definitions huh? I wonder how can they actually believe in something if they can't even say what that is. Consider

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10-02-2014, 12:46 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:39 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  
(10-02-2014 12:31 AM)fmudd Wrote:  Christian Friend: "I answered on Zeus and it will be the same answer for Muhammad. First, realize Muhammad never claimed to be divine; he ultimately claimed to worship the same God the Christians and Jews worshiped.

So, for Greek/Roman Mythology, Islam, and Christianity: same God, different presentations.

What we would have to do is narrow down which characteristics that God may or may not have and go from there.

But before we do that we have to come together and decide on whether there is indeed a God or not."
Whether Muhammad claimed divinity or not is irrelevant as is which god he worshiped. There are extraordinary claims made and I asked you if you accept them. Answer the question!

Christian Friend: "Answered. Yes; I believe in the God Muhammad worshiped. As for particular claims and characteristics about the same God both he and I worship I would have to research them. I ultimately do believe in miracles so it just depends on each one as they come along.

Before we debate specifics we need to keep the focus on whether there is in fact a higher power or not."
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10-02-2014, 12:48 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:43 AM)nach_in Wrote:  I'd like an answer to my post.

Oh, and btw, it's not the same to believe in a higher power than to believe in a certain and well defined god. We can actually disprove the existence of gods when they are well defined. But theist tend to be so pesky with their definitions huh? I wonder how can they actually believe in something if they can't even say what that is. Consider
I'd like to see an attempt to answer your post myself!
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10-02-2014, 12:52 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:42 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  So what was god talking about when he demanded you not have any other gods before him? Was he talking about all those other gods that just happened to be him?

Christian Friend: "He was talking partially about different representations of Him that did not fit his nature.

You must also understand that God was also talking about money (Greed), lust, vengeance, etc.

For example, don't worship "money", don't worship "violence", etc.

He was talking about truth within that as well.

The idea is to worship the truest form of God and only that God.

There is a lot of theology here but that is the simplest I can explain that. This is indeed a complex topic."
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10-02-2014, 12:52 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
only evidence for a higher power is the lack of evidence that there isn't a higher power

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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10-02-2014, 12:57 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:43 AM)nach_in Wrote:  I'd like an answer to my post.

Oh, and btw, it's not the same to believe in a higher power than to believe in a certain and well defined god. We can actually disprove the existence of gods when they are well defined. But theist tend to be so pesky with their definitions huh? I wonder how can they actually believe in something if they can't even say what that is. Consider

Christian Friend: "A wonderful post; thank you for sharing.

I will go in depth tomorrow (tired now Sleepy ) but some quick points.

Objective morality most certainly does exist; how can we say Jerry Sandusky did a bad thing versus saying he did something we really don't prefer?

How can we say that slavery as practiced in the past was wrong and that the people in the past who enslaved people were wrong to do so as opposed to saying there was a cultural misunderstanding or again, not our preference?

And your item about acceptance is of utmost interest to me; I do believe that we are getting closer here.

Again, thank you."
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10-02-2014, 12:59 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(10-02-2014 12:46 AM)fmudd Wrote:  
(10-02-2014 12:39 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Whether Muhammad claimed divinity or not is irrelevant as is which god he worshiped. There are extraordinary claims made and I asked you if you accept them. Answer the question!

Christian Friend: "Answered. Yes; I believe in the God Muhammad worshiped. As for particular claims and characteristics about the same God both he and I worship I would have to research them. I ultimately do believe in miracles so it just depends on each one as they come along.

Before we debate specifics we need to keep the focus on whether there is in fact a higher power or not."

No we don't. We can not come to an agreement on whether there is a higher power or not because neither of us has enough information to do so. You claim there is and I reject that claim on the basis that you have no evidence. It is exactly like Santa Claus and mermaids.
Once again you are being dishonest. First. I didn't ask if you believe in the god Muhammad worshiped. I asked if you accept the claims I posted. Second. You said you must research the claims. You don't need to do that in this instance and the fact that you said you do shows that you are suspending belief until you have more facts. In essence you do not (at least yet) believe that the claims are true. That is exactly my stance on god. I suspend belief until I get more info.
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10-02-2014, 01:02 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
Oh. And I do apologize for going off on you earlier. It was not cool.
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