What is the explaination for everything?
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12-02-2014, 08:09 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(12-02-2014 08:06 PM)fmudd Wrote:  Christian Friend: "In this context an atheist is completely blind."

So in my situation, I became blind after thirty plus years of sight. I know exactly what the fuck red looks like. So what?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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12-02-2014, 08:25 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(12-02-2014 08:09 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 08:06 PM)fmudd Wrote:  Christian Friend: "In this context an atheist is completely blind."

So in my situation, I became blind after thirty plus years of sight. I know exactly what the fuck red looks like. So what?

The trouble was, you glimpsed the paint can with the bar-code label" Man Made"

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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12-02-2014, 08:26 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(12-02-2014 08:09 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 08:06 PM)fmudd Wrote:  Christian Friend: "In this context an atheist is completely blind."

So in my situation, I became blind after thirty plus years of sight. I know exactly what the fuck red looks like. So what?

Christian friend: "Now actually describe the color RED to people who are blind, since you have seen the color."
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12-02-2014, 08:40 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(12-02-2014 08:26 PM)fmudd Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 08:09 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  So in my situation, I became blind after thirty plus years of sight. I know exactly what the fuck red looks like. So what?

Christian friend: "Now actually describe the color RED to people who are blind, since you have seen the color."

But why? The color red serves them no practical purpose. It is an arbitrary concept that will be described differently by different people, yet will not affect the blind person's life in the least. A person who has never seen has no need for color, no matter how beautifully you can describe it to them.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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12-02-2014, 09:50 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2014 09:55 PM by fmudd.)
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(12-02-2014 08:40 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  But why? The color red serves them no practical purpose. It is an arbitrary concept that will be described differently by different people, yet will not affect the blind person's life in the least. A person who has never seen has no need for color, no matter how beautifully you can describe it to them.

Christian Friend: "So, the color RED 'serves no practical purpose' yet defines so much of what people know about the world for people who can see. That goes for all of the other colors. It's part of what makes being blind so debilitating.

It's like saying smell 'serves no practical purpose' for people who can't smell; you could live without a sense and have it technically described to you.

Science cannot answer all questions."
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12-02-2014, 09:56 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(12-02-2014 09:50 PM)fmudd Wrote:  Science cannot answer all questions."

It will give you an answer though, even it that happens to be "we don't know yet".

or we could just make shit up, or swallow shit that was previously made up.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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12-02-2014, 10:00 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2014 10:05 PM by evenheathen.)
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(12-02-2014 09:50 PM)fmudd Wrote:  Christian Friend: "So 'religion' serves no practical purpose' yet defines so much of what people know about the world for people who 'are religious'. That goes for all of the other 'religions'. It's part of what makes being 'an atheist' so 'uninhibited by man made superstition and dogma'

Fixed that for ya.

Quote:Science cannot answer all questions

Yet.

edit: I take it back, it is a lot like talking about religion! Thumbsup

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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12-02-2014, 10:17 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(12-02-2014 07:35 PM)fmudd Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 05:12 PM)nach_in Wrote:  I'd say something like this: "Any colour is the way our eyes perceive different light wavelengths. It's a thing you can't perceive directly, but you can know it's real because it can be detected by technological equipment and you can check the data. Just as we people with sight know there are other wavelengths we can't see, we call them ultraviolet and infrared"

Christian Friend: "If I asked for a measurement of the color on the eye and brain, then OK.

What I am looking for is your description of red to the blind people. A blind person cannot discern RED versus BLUE versus GREEN from what you wrote.

A description is what I am looking for."

(12-02-2014 05:12 PM)nach_in Wrote:  still waiting for your answer on my post btw

"Writing now. It is a complex topic but at the end of the day when it comes to morality (one part of what you wrote) certain ideas are not subject to group discussion.

Otherwise it is mob rule with no way of saying what is right versus what is wrong."

Yeah, that's because some things can't be defined in a descriptive way, no need to have a blind person, you can't describe a colour to anyone with words, that's why we define them ostensibly (by pointing out what we're talking about). But you can't point at god, because there's nothing to point at.

You're not the first to say that moral values have that same characteristic of not being definable by words, these people say we can only know values by intuition. But that's a terribly faulty argument as intuition is tremendously subjective and culturally conditioned.

Morality, whether you like it or not, is defined by at least one core value based on "mob mentality", I rather call it emergent values, as is not the same as a mob craze, is something that comes up over time.

Your objective morality is nothing but subjective morality described as objective, but without any material fact to back it up besides people's reactions or instincts. Not so surprisingly, that contradicts your religious dogma.

You are not original, nor is your "friend".

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12-02-2014, 10:33 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(12-02-2014 04:58 PM)fmudd Wrote:  ...
Christian Friend: "I don't see how that follows. What makes morality objective simply means that it is outside of group discussions or preferences."
...

Exactly.

So there is not much point discussing it in this group. Is there?

Smartass

(12-02-2014 04:58 PM)fmudd Wrote:  ...
Christian Friend: "Religion is not as you describe; it is quite simply Science AND God."

Please ask your 'friend' to explain that assertion.

Thanks.

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12-02-2014, 10:42 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(12-02-2014 08:06 PM)fmudd Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 07:39 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  No it's not. That beeker comment made no sense by the way. I see where you're going with this, but it's not the same thing at all. It's not a clever analogy. If red is Christianity, then what is someone who is slightly red/green colorblind? Buddhist? What if they're totally colorblind, is colorblindness atheism? Then what are the completely blind people? Satanists?

Christian Friend: "In this context an atheist is completely blind."

Christianity "Everything is black or white"
Islam "Everything is black or white, god is great and allah is his name"
Judaism "Is everything so black and white, already?"
Atheism "Black and white are illusions"
Science "Let's check out the whole spectrum and what's behind the spectrum"

Smartass

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