What is the explaination for everything?
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13-02-2014, 01:33 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(13-02-2014 01:18 AM)fmudd Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 10:17 PM)nach_in Wrote:  Yeah, that's because some things can't be defined in a descriptive way, no need to have a blind person, you can't describe a colour to anyone with words, that's why we define them ostensibly (by pointing out what we're talking about). But you can't point at god, because there's nothing to point at.

Christian Friend: "So 'some things can't be defined in a descriptive way', like God?

It seems no one here can actually come up with a description of RED to a blind person.

What do you say when the Blind person says that the color RED simply doesn't exist?"

I can demonstrate him that it does exist because it does cause measurable effects in the world without the need of direct, subjective, observation. In other words, it doesn't matter you can't actually see the colours, they're there beyond our individual perception (like infrared and ultraviolet colours) and we can measure and prove that assertion, unlike god.
God, or any supernatural thing for that matter, shares the first part (are, allegedly, beyond our perception) but not so much for the second (measurable effect).

So I can prove the blind person to be wrong about the inexistence of colours, but your friend can't do the same about the existence of god, or objective morality for that matter.

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13-02-2014, 01:45 AM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2014 01:54 AM by DLJ.)
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
fmudd,

This is kid's stuff. What's the problem with explaining the errors yourself, to your friend?

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13-02-2014, 01:50 AM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2014 01:57 AM by evenheathen.)
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(13-02-2014 01:18 AM)fmudd Wrote:  What do you say when the Blind person says that the color RED simply doesn't exist?"

To a person without the ability to perceive the color red? It simply doesn't exist.

God is exactly that, a color. It's one way to describe what we think we understand but we only know it as our mind perceives it. It's an abstract idea. How would you describe the color red?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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13-02-2014, 02:01 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(13-02-2014 01:50 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  To a person without the ability to perceive the color red? It simply doesn't exist.

God is exactly that, a color. It's one way to describe what we think we understand but we only know it as our mind perceives it. It's an abstract idea. How would you describe the color red?

Christian Friend: "But people WITH sight can see it. So doesn't it exist? Isn't it real?"
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13-02-2014, 02:08 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
Still waiting

[Image: bored_student350.gif]

Do you need help? or was it just too complicated for you to do gymnastics around it?

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13-02-2014, 02:58 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(13-02-2014 02:08 AM)nach_in Wrote:  Still waiting

Do you need help? or was it just too complicated for you to do gymnastics around it?

Christian Friend: "I agree; it is the same as with folks here who still can't describe the color RED to a blind person. One commenter even suggests that for Blind people a very real thing doesn't exist."
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13-02-2014, 03:07 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
This thread needs more cowbell; just saying.

... I wanted to say something but nothing here really seems fun to respond to from this christian friend.

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13-02-2014, 03:12 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(13-02-2014 02:58 AM)fmudd Wrote:  Christian Friend: "I agree; it is the same as with folks here who still can't describe the color RED to a blind person. One commenter even suggests that for Blind people a very real thing doesn't exist."
Yes there is. Give them an audible color reader.
Are you claiming a geiger counter is not proof enough for radiation to exist.
http://www.enablemart.com/color-teller

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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13-02-2014, 03:18 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
Dude, get off the colour thing. It's a distraction.

The answer to "How would one describe the colour RED to a blind person?" is...

The same way one would describe it to a sighted person.

All atheists ask is:

Please provide evidence for the existence of your christian friend god(s).

Not too much to ask, right?

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13-02-2014, 03:24 AM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(13-02-2014 02:58 AM)fmudd Wrote:  
(13-02-2014 02:08 AM)nach_in Wrote:  Still waiting

Do you need help? or was it just too complicated for you to do gymnastics around it?

Christian Friend: "I agree; it is the same as with folks here who still can't describe the color RED to a blind person. One commenter even suggests that for Blind people a very real thing doesn't exist."

Colours can't be described with words, that's a fact of human language. Don't search for answers you won't find, you can't describe colours either.

Indeed, for a blind person a colour doesn't exist, but that's a subjective point of view, that can be trumped with enough evidence.

So you say you agree with my older post? Then we now agree that there is no objective way to prove the existence of your god (directly or indirectly). And that the rejection of the claim ("not god exist") is not the same as the affirmation of the contrary ("god doesn't exist").

Excellent, now you know the basics of the basics about atheism.

Although I doubt it, I'm inclined to think you didn't actually keep track of the conversation and just got out on the colour tangent.

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