What is the explaination for everything?
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08-02-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 03:35 PM)fmudd Wrote:  Basically the Christian person I am in discussion with is saying atheists don't have an answer; the atheist just says it not God.

Isn't saying that there is no God an assertion without proof in the same way that a Christian says there is a God?

How can I reconcile these two ideas with this Christian?

Saying there is no God is an assertion without proof in the same way that saying there is no Santa Claus is an assertion without proof. Or that the spoons in my cutlery drawer don't do a dance when the drawer is closed is an assertion without proof.

Those who make the claim, in this case that God exists, need the proof.

Where did everything come from? I don't know. And I'm comfortable with that.
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08-02-2014, 03:53 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
Thank you for the replies thus far; I'll check out the video.

At this point the answers provided are not helping me prove to my Christian friend that atheism explains more than what Christianity has explained.

Please understand that I am not arguing; it just seems to me that atheism only asserts that God doesn't exist without proof.

I cannot defend that to my Christian friend.

This is what I need help with.

Thank you.
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08-02-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 03:53 PM)fmudd Wrote:  Thank you for the replies thus far; I'll check out the video.

At this point the answers provided are not helping me prove to my Christian friend that atheism explains more than what Christianity has explained.

Please understand that I am not arguing; it just seems to me that atheism only asserts that God doesn't exist without proof.

I cannot defend that to my Christian friend.

This is what I need help with.

Thank you.

Man, your losing a losing battle with this approch.... the onus is on them to prove their god.... period.

They claim 'god' is the answere, well let them prove it with evidence.

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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08-02-2014, 03:58 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 03:53 PM)fmudd Wrote:  Thank you for the replies thus far; I'll check out the video.

At this point the answers provided are not helping me prove to my Christian friend that atheism explains more than what Christianity has explained.

Please understand that I am not arguing; it just seems to me that atheism only asserts that God doesn't exist without proof.

I cannot defend that to my Christian friend.

This is what I need help with.

Thank you.

The burden of proof is on the person who claims something exists. You don't prove there isn't alien life in a galaxy a hundred million light years away for example, you would expect someone making that claim to provide proof.

Likewise the existence of something like God that can't be seen, felt, smelt or heard, and has no effect on any existing technology requires proof from the person making the claim.

Turn it on your friend. Ask for proof that God exists. Note that the Bible is not proof, the Bible is the claim. Alternatively, ask him which god and then ask him to prove it's not Zeus.

At some point you may have to give up though. When people believe, rational thought tends to go out the window.
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08-02-2014, 04:00 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 03:53 PM)fmudd Wrote:  At this point the answers provided are not helping me prove to my Christian friend that atheism explains more than what Christianity has explained.

You're welcome...um..But in a way Atheism isn't quite about explaining anything.

An antheist, is kind of just a mental state of saying 'There are no gods"...Everything else is getting off one's toosh and working things out form there. Wink

Science (All of them) have given us a ton (imperial or metric) amounts of information on everything.

(08-02-2014 03:53 PM)fmudd Wrote:  Please understand that I am not arguing; it just seems to me that atheism only asserts that God doesn't exist without proof.

Well...yes and no. Y'see, what most Theists present as 'evidence' is actually pretty skint. As in pretty much nothing beyond "God started everything'. Which is great...but doesn't actually answer every thing. If a god did start everything 13 point something billion years ago...and then did nothing.... They/It aren't really of a concept worth worrying about.

(08-02-2014 03:53 PM)fmudd Wrote:  I cannot defend that to my Christian friend.

This is what I need help with.

Thank you.

Meh...what's to defend. You kind of really need your friend to give you a 'narrower' question. Smile

Heck, get them to log in/join up here and ask their own questions. Wink

Very much cheers to all.
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08-02-2014, 04:07 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
Tell your friend to look up the timeline of different religions throughout humanity. There has been thousands of different gods, reasons, explanations, rules and circumstances. At one point the people of the past would have lived their life's by these rule's, they would of gone to war for them and in some cases died for them, much like humanity still does today. Overtime though these religions, which share so many characteristics with today's powers players have faded away and every single prayer, thought and consequence means "fuck all" as there is nobody alive today who worships them anymore.

In other words look at all the dead religions.

Your friend has been indoctrinated psychologically to certain responses and thought patterns to do with reason. Only your friend can undo these.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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08-02-2014, 04:08 PM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2014 04:13 PM by fmudd.)
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 03:58 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  The burden of proof is on the person who claims something exists. You don't prove there isn't alien life in a galaxy a hundred million light years away for example, you would expect someone making that claim to provide proof.

Likewise the existence of something like God that can't be seen, felt, smelt or heard, and has no effect on any existing technology requires proof from the person making the claim.

Turn it on your friend. Ask for proof that God exists. Note that the Bible is not proof, the Bible is the claim. Alternatively, ask him which god and then ask him to prove it's not Zeus.

At some point you may have to give up though. When people believe, rational thought tends to go out the window.

I see; here is the point that my Christian friend has made to me:

Whether it is Zeus or Buddha or Jesus or Abraham or whatever there is a higher intelligence that has created logic, order, and life in the universe.

The whole point of the argument that she has had with me is that atheism doesn't explain existence and God does explain existence.

Her proof of God is that we are.

How is an atheist (or atheism) answering that question?

It seems based on what I am reading that atheism doesn't have an answer to that question.
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08-02-2014, 04:14 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 04:08 PM)fmudd Wrote:  I see; here is the point that my Christian fiend has made to me:

Whether it is Zeus or Buddha or Jesus or Abraham or whatever there is a higher intelligence that has created logic, order, and life in the universe.

The whole point of the argument that she has had with me is that atheism doesn't explain existence and God does explain existence.

Her proof of God is that we are.

How is an atheist (or atheism) answering that question?

It seems based on what I am reading that atheism doesn't have an answer to that question.

So...a quick summing up is "Your friend doesn't know either. Hence is simply saying 'God did it'." ?

Atheism is just removing the "God did it' from the above statement and leaving the "We don't know," bit behind. Smile
See? Simple. Wink

After that? It's learning what we do know and then learning more so that "We don't know" keeps getting smaller. Big Grin

Very much cheers to all.
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08-02-2014, 04:20 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
why so much debate? the answer is clearly 42

[Image: sigvacachica.png]
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08-02-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: What is the explaination for everything?
(08-02-2014 03:35 PM)fmudd Wrote:  
(08-02-2014 03:29 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Um...basically "Everything is"

As to "Why?"

"We don't know...but we're looking every where for answers..."

Hope that helps. Smile

Basically the Christian person I am in discussion with is saying atheists don't have an answer; the atheist just says it not God.

Isn't saying that there is no God an assertion without proof in the same way that a Christian says there is a God?

How can I reconcile these two ideas with this Christian?
I think you've summed up your misunderstanding right here. As an atheist I have never asserted there is no god nor have I ever asserted that god didn't create the universe. I simply disagree with the assertion that there is a god or that he created the universe based on the fact that there is no evidence to back up the claim. Bottom line is I don't know how the universe came to be nor do I know if god exists or not. I don't know, you don't know and your Christian friend don't know. Nobody knows and anyone who tries to tell you they do know is either crazy, lying to you or is deluding themselves.
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